In what situations do you think lying is the correct thing to do?

[plantsandwich]

Had an interesting conversation with a friend tonight about this.
She said things like 'If your MH is bad, It's okay to pretend you can't attend something because you're busy/physically ill/similar, because it isn't their business'.

I think It's okay to lie sometimes. For example I've lied to a child about how a pet died-telling the truth would do no good aside from upset them.

What's your opinion on the subject?

What about a very old thing from the distant past, and telling the truth is only to alleviate your guilt?

“No, of course I don’t think your brother is better looking than you, and I definitely don’t want to shag him”.

@Aerin1999 sorry, i am not quite sure what you mean, would you mind putting it a slightly different way?

@HeddaGarbled 😅
Yup, I'd say that's an appropriate 'being economical with the truth' scenario!

Thanks for dinner...it was absolutely delicious.

To be polite or save someone's feelings (I love your new haircut, Carol).

To keep your own privacy (as the MH example in the OP).

To save someone from something that will only hurt them and there is no value in them knowing the truth (as the cat example). It's difficult to know where the line is with this one though because whether it holds value is subjective.

I’m sorry I didn’t explain well. I guess I meant if someone had a secret from their distant past that is no longer relevant - is it always best to share the truth which will cause a great deal of pain.

@Comedycook Yes!

@NuffSaidSam yes, I guess that's the principle of it
@Aerin1999 yes, that makes sense too. If there's not any value in being truthful.

I hate lying. I'd rather know the truth in all circumstances. I'd never trust anyone again and would end a relationship over being lied to about any of these things if I found out.

@BlueSlate you would end a relationship because someone told you they enjoyed a meal you made and it turns out they didn't?

I am sure telling a 'white lie' is perfectly acceptable... ie; 'thank you for a lovely evening' rather than 'I was bored senseless and your cooking is rank'. I think I have often told 'white lies' instead of the blunt truth and I am sure people have told me white lies.
And the health example is actually quite good .. you don't need to disclose graphic details of a health condition to anyone ... a colleague recently told me, in rather gross details, about a health problem, there was absolutely no need to, the same with mental health .. no one has to know the details of anyone else's health condition - unless in a confidential setting with our own doctor or occupational health.
And if someone is delighted with their new hair colour, dress, whatever is it rather unkind to say 'you look awful'. If someone asks for your opinion that is clearly different ... I tried on a new item yesterday, something I would never usually wear and asked a close relative to give me an honest opinion .. I hadn't yet bought it so there was no embarrassment and she did tell me honestly - she said it was nice ).

Sometimes it's not about what you would rather know. Would you really end a friendship if someone told a lie about eg a private health condition/problem they had that they didn't want to share? Even if that meant an outright lie, I think that's a very understandable situation. Let's say someone cancels plans with you and says they're ill, you ask if they're ok and they say "yeah, just a stomach bug" and you find out later that was a lie and it was a miscarriage. Would you really make that about your feelings about how you would rather know the truth, and get cross with them over the lie?

After having had some very bitter experiences in the past I now believe in saying the truth 100% of the time. Even to children, even things that happened a very long time ago, even things that look inconsequential. This can be done with gentle language and without damaging the relationship. But the truth needs to be out.

I think it’s really hard to define. You have to take every situation as it comes. Timing, who the person is, your relationship to them. And you might tell a lie in one situation, but at a different time you may be honest.

We all have our own internal guide on these things.

Like above. A poster who demands truth in all situations just wouldn’t work for me. If you ask if I am ok, and I say I am fine because I don’t want to talk about it, that’s my business. It’s not hurting someone else. No one has the right to the thoughts in my head exactly when they want to hear them. I lost my mum 19 months ago. I feel broken. But I don’t want to always talk about how bad I feel, about how it’s not any better, how I feel worse than when it first happened. How I keep picking up my phone to text her and then having a panic attack when I realise.

Even my partner has no right to force me to talk about these things. So I say I am fine. It’s not the truth. But no one is entitled to the truth in that situation, in my opinion.

I do believe if you don’t want to know the answer then don’t ask the question. That doesn’t mean that you have to be thoughtless how you respond. I can’t think of a scenario for how a pet died that I would lie, obviously I wouldn’t go into detail but if they were hit by a car or attacked by another animal I would answer in an age appropriate way. If I ask a question it’s because I want to know the answer but I appreciate that not everyone is the same. I hate it when someone asks one thing but actually mean something else.

I bought a dress that I loved. My DD said she hated it but I thought it was fabulous. Showed my friends a photo and they both said no, it doesn’t suit you, you look much better in other things. I can see why you like the shape but the pattern is awful. I was gutted but took it back and bought something everyone - including me! -
loved. I’m glad they all saved me from myself

Just started seeing a guy who has had some struggles with addiction and mental health. He has been 100% honest and up front since the start, telling me everything including the role he played in breaking up his past relationships etc. it’s a lot, but I feel that I can trust him with anything because he’s been - some might say TOO - honest with me. It could be argued that I didn’t need to know this stuff, certainly not within the first few weeks, but I know it was really hard for him to tell me, he was shaking and heart racing, so he felt the need to get it out there from the start so there’s no secrets. I value that completely.

My ex was the type to lie about anything and everything. His actual job was to ‘spin’ data to make it look like his company were doing a great job. He described himself as Director of smoke and mirrors.

So it meant that whatever he told me was taken with a pinch of salt because it was all ‘massaged’ to make him look good.

He lied to friends about being head hunted when he applied for a new job, lied to them about his proposal to me by pretending he’d bought a ring and planned it when it had actually just been a lovely spontaneous moment, so that his colleagues got a better version of the engagement story than I did!

He would lie about how many days he would be away on business, making it sound like less than it was so I wouldn’t be sad about it, then say on a technicality that he didn’t count the days he was travelling etc . He suggested lying to his kids when we went on holiday just the two of us, and telling them he was away for work, which would have meant my kids colluding in the lie next time they saw his kids, because they knew where I’d gone!

They were all “white lies” and didn’t actually hurt anyone, were mainly told to stop someone else being upset or to make him look good, but it just meant I could no longer believe anything else he said. He would answer like a politician if I asked him a straight question

eg. me: “were you FaceTiming her while you were away with work”

him: “she never came with me”

”but were you leaning on her for support while I was at home missing you?”

”nothing happened while we were still together” etc

In my book, as a very intuitive person who can sense a lie a mile off, all lying does is cause people to feel uneasy. Just be honest and deal with the consequences.

No, it doesn't make your bum look big. And I love the colour.

I think there's a difference between not saying something and out and out lying.

So I've been saying "thank you for getting me a present" to my mother for years, even though they are always awful and I ask her not to bother. That's not a lie - it's just politeness. Telling her I loved the gift would be a lie.

So, in the health one, I don't understand why you wouldn't just say you couldn't come because you were having a bad day or didn't feel up to it or some such. You don't need to give precise details.

So, in the health one, I don't understand why you wouldn't just say you couldn't come because you were having a bad day or didn't feel up to it or some such. You don't need to give precise details.

Some people push though.

"Really sorry, I can't make it today, I'm not feeling up to it"

"That's a shame, are you ok?"

"Yeah, just not feeling well"

"Oh no, what's wrong?"

Having a mental health crisis: "Sorry I can't come, I'm not feeling well."
"What's wrong?"
"I'd rather not go into detail if you don't mind, but I should be able to be there next week."

Have a rank meal cooked for you.
"Thank you for having me round and for cooking. It was really nice to spend time with you."

Hideous haircut:
"Oh, you've changed your hairstyle! And I really like your top/earrings/the new colour."

There's rarely a need to lie.

I agree with pp, I hate lying so don’t do it.

I think keeping things private and lying are different.

I wouldn't lie to my kids about how an animal died because that's depriving them of the facts about something that affects them.

My health is my business.

When you need to to get out of a dangerous situation. We emphasis this in our training for lone workers and others.

I dont lie as a rule because I wouldn't remember what I'd lied about and would land myself in it.
People don't trust you if you are a liar. They aren't stupid. They can tell.
I'd only lie if I needed to get myself out of a dangerous situation.

So you are dead and are in a place where only good people go.
You find out that your soulmate has lied to be there. She is not a good person.

However, you believe that if you lie, you aren't a good person.
Do you tell the person in charge of this good place that the person shouldn't be there even though that might affect her and you or do you keep quiet even though that you and your morals?

What's the moral thing to do?

I don't agree with lying in principle, but there are occasions when people like to protect themselves from something they can't discuss yet - the example of an upset tummy/miscarriage is one that is clearly to protect themselves from something they probably can't handle discussing or sympathy for yet. Likewise someone having a mental health crisis may be in no state to think of others at that time (sadly, many people are not happy to accept 'I'd rather not go into detail ').

Dealing with very elderly people with dementia is another place where I think it is acceptable - there is no need to tell them yet again that someone has died for example, for them to start going through grief again, but then to have the same conversation again in a few hours time. Here I would avoid the subject rather than lie directly.

With children I attempt to tell a sanitised version of the truth where possible.