Can’t sleep: WWYD - small school or not?

[WaffleDuvet]

We recently moved across the country to be closer to in laws. The whole thing has been extremely stressful to be honest. We have two DDs: older one is in Y2 and younger one due to start Reception in September. We’re having a dilemma over what to do with schooling.

School A: Normal size school, within easy walking distance of our new house.
School B: 5 minute drive from our house. Tiny school with only about 70 kids total (not possible to walk).

We were unable to get a place for DD1 at School A, so she started at School B a few months ago. Was a bit rocky at first but she is quite happy there now. However, there are only 6 kids in Y2, and only two other girls. These two other girls are v close and have known each other since toddlers. It is a mixed year group so there are a few other girls around DD1’s age - about 6 in total. DD1 seems to get on with most of them and is happy coming out of school, occasionally feels a bit left out outside school as other kids live near each other & parents are close friends. I like the teachers and she seems to be getting on well with schoolwork.

DD2 has been offered a place at School A for September. However, DD1 has been rejected for School A for Y3 on the basis that they are still full. DH wants to appeal to get DD1 into School A and send both girls there.

I’m really unsure about moving DD1 again (even if she does get a place). She was extremely unhappy when we first moved (she loved her old school- so did so!) and she now seems settled and happy in new school. So am reluctant to unsettle her again. But I do worry longer term about potential friendship issues at School B (the much smaller school) for both DDs. I believe there are only about 5 kids starting in September so DD2 would also be in a very small cohort (I don’t know the mix of boys: girls). However I don’t really want them at separate schools, would be a logistical nightmare and I also think they’d be happier going to the same place.

So the options are:

1. Send them both to small School B.
2. Appeal for DD1 to go to School A and send them both there (if we win appeal).
3. Send them to different schools.

I can’t sleep for worrying about this! As I say, DD1 is happy at the small School B but I worry about potential friendship issues (for both girls) at such a tiny school.

I'd do this too.

This may be outing but both schools are now in the same academy and have the same head. Head seems very keen for DD1 to stay at current school (has been quite blunt about the bigger school being full) and has suggested to me about putting DD2 in the smaller school. I know they are struggling for numbers so are working hard to try and increase the intake…

Well of course the head is saying that if numbers are lower say the small school. He's not got your children's best interests at heart he just sees them as numbers. He knows the bigger school is not going to struggle for numbers, you need to think about what is best for your children and that doesn't sound like school A.

@SeeingSpots yes I suppose so! I assume you mean the smaller school is not the better option. Although I do think one of the benefits of the small school is that the class sizes are smaller and they get more attention, DD1’s reading has come on a lot.

I suspect they have real concerns about the possibility of having to close the smaller school. Surely they can’t keep going if they are only taking in 4/5 kids every year?!

The smaller school is rarely a better option. Talking about small class sizes which might seem great for additional learning oppotunities, but school is about so much more than extra reading. Your oldest daughter may be getting 1-1 from her teacher but she's also getting limited friendships, lack of facilities and restricted opportunities to areas of the curriculum, such as sport.

It's hard to see when you'e in the middle of it all, but if you send your youngest to the larger school you will see just how different they are, and just how important a larger group of children can be.

@Whinge thank you, yes I can see that. I have found our move extremely stressful myself so part of me is also reluctant to go through another ordeal with DD1. But I obviously do want what’s best for her and DD2 and maybe that means some short to medium term pain.

In terms of facilities, the smaller school does have a lovely big playground. They have recently started music lessons and they do forest school. They also do swimming lessons for the older years, and some school trips events are combined with the larger school.

However I suspect the bigger school would offer more in terms of clubs etc. we already find it hard as the after school club there closes at 5. And obviously the far fewer friendship opportunities. Plus the fact that we have moved to a new area and haven’t met any local families because we have to drive DD1 to school.

Sorry haven’t read the whole thread but I would send them both to the small school unless you are in a highly mobile area and a place is likely to come up. I don’t think you have a reasonable chance of succeeding at appeal.

@Dancingcandlesticks yes to be honest I have no idea what the chances are of a successful appeal. DD1’s year seems to be especially oversubscribed.

Small school will seem even less attractive when your DC get to about Year 4 (when the small, nurturing aspects become less of a benefit).

I'd get them both into School A if you can. You can appeal for DC1 once in Year 3 as infant class size won't apply.

My children go to a small school and they have been brilliant, so I think it entirely depends on what you think about the school itself.

Mine play with children right across the school so the limited numbers in their year has never been an issue. As the school is small they have had far greater opportunities in terms of sport and drama - eg if there is a team they are always in it as there aren’t many to choose from! I would absolutely do option a, esp if you have a child who is already happy and settled.

As to moving to secondary, my previously very shy son is far more confident than I ever expected he would be - primarily as he has had so many opportunities and so much support in a way that would never have been afforded to him at a larger school. The parents of older siblings have never reported any problems.

Once your eldest has finished there would be nothing to stop you moving the youngest it it’s not working for them.

@Dreamtheimpossibledream thanks, it’s useful to get another perspective! Argh I really don’t know what to do. DD1 does seem to be able to make and keep friends and is happy there for now at least. Just not sure what it might be like as the girls get a bit older. She is already dealing with a bit of jealousy (I think) from two girls who are close to the girl she gets on with most. But they are only 6/7 so I guess in a year or two they may kind of forget that DD1 joined a bit later? Which I think would be different if DD1 had joined at say 8/9

Sorry haven't read the whole thread but just a couple of points - I went to 3 different schools by the time I was 8 & honestly really struggled with all the changes & making friends etc. Obviously all kids are different but my experience meant that I would prioritise stability & keep DD1 at her present school.
My DC both went to a tiny school (similar size to the one you describe) & both loved it, we had to drive there as it was out of catchment but it was definitely the right decision for us. No problems with moving onto the (very large) secondary etc.
So in your position I would send both to the small school but make a big effort with arranging play dates etc. so they feel included/encourage friendships.

A for dd2, dd1 is on wl as a sibling and may get a space or you can appeal as class sizes are less restricted from year 3. 70 is small and better to be together.

Please also consider the ongoing initiative to
close small schools that are under used. The population bulge are now moving into secondary and a lot of primary schools are going to be under-utilised and therefore closed/amalgamated with another school. Get your girls into the “normal” school which will also undoubtedly have better facilities, better SEN provision, better sports/arts/music/anything expensive, not to mention better opportunities for friendships.

@bobby81 thank you. I have been trying to make a big effort with getting to know the parents and volunteering where I can to help school events etc. I am really concerned about the impact that moving DD1 again could have. She can be quite anxious and so just think - I don’t want to tell her she has to move schools again. However I’m also conscious of what another poster said upthread about being the parent and making the best decision for the longer term, regardless of what DD1 wants now.

I haven’t really found any little friends for DD2 yet. I know she would absolutely love to be at the same school as DD1 and that being able to see her big sister at break time and lunchtime would help her settle in.

I really want to make the right decision! My DH wants to appeal for DD1 to go to school A. It’s more me that is unsure.

I'd go with the small school - mine go to one (even smaller than yours) & it's amazing. I'm afraid a lot of people on MN don't seem to like small schools whether they've had experience of them or not.
There are advantages & disadvantages to both. But surely if your DD1 is happy why move her? Unless you have major concerns about the school & its outcomes? & if that's the case why wouldn't you put DD2 in there too?
The whole friendship thing can is blown up way out of proportion. Kids in mixed classes don't just play with their Yr cohort, they play & have friendships across the class/school. & you can still have fallings out & bullying etc at bigger schools, often much worse with more children who can be brought into it.
If you like the small school, DD1 is happy & settled, it works for your family, you like the teachers, the kids are well provided for etc, why wouldn't you send DD2 there?

@Mingomang thanks for this, yes I’ve been trying to find out whether it’s a risk of closure. I can’t find anything but surely it must be at risk seeing as they are only taking in 4 or 5 in September (I think that can take up to 26). Is there anywhere I can find out or would it just be a case of asking the school?

Definitely the bigger school OP. I've done the very small school thing with my own children and wished I hadn't

On the social / friendship issues in smaller schools - I have found this far less of a problem than friends with children in larger schools. The mixed year groups help - shifting the other children each year breaks / shifts the dynamics.
I wasn’t convinced and really dithered when we first applied, but we have had such a positive experience and I am now a huge advocate for small schools.

That was another thing about our tiny school, the lack of facilities. It had no hall so for all indoor PE we had to walk half a mile to the village hall which didn't have any proper equipment. We had a field but not adjoining the playground and again all had to be marched up there in summer. We had to have lunch at our desks every day. As for sports clubs, I was forced to be in the netball team because there were only 7 girls the right age and hated it.

My dc1 goes to similar size school (75 pupils) and dc2 starts in August. Our experience has been really positive. However both dc1 and dc2 do a bunch of extra curricular activities across the wider area and thus have friends from other schools as well.

The facilities are very individual to the school I think. Ours has a gym hall as well as a large playground and is a 1 min safe walk to a football pitch. Lunch is cooked on the premises and eaten in the canteen. Various after school classes are offered, sometimes in tandem with other smaller schools. Plus the PTA is very active with various activities run across the year.

My husband went to a very small school (12 kids, from roughly 4 families) at one point and based on his experiences we wouldn't touch one that small but 70 odd isn't that small imo.

I wouldn't like a school which isn't walkable though. Many of my dc's friends literally live a 3 or 4 min walk away which makes socialising after school/on the journey or at weekends so much easier.

It's entirely possible it only applies if the older sibling is the one in the school and the younger one on the waiting list/applying. I've seen that before, though it is rare.

However, they must have that in their admissions criteria - it needs to explain what they treat as a sibling and how it applies. They cannot add restrictions that are not in the written, agreed criteria.