Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Good explainer on MLMs?

24 replies

IScreamMonday · 09/06/2023 22:46

Can anyone recommend a good explainer on MLMs? I know how they work in principle but I don't really understand if everyone is faking it or if some people are actually doing well. And I hear they always collapse but I don't quite get how.
I'm interested as a school mum was trying to sell everyone Herbalife products and it all seemed a bit weird.

OP posts:
user50316 · 09/06/2023 22:55

There's a really good girl on tiktok who does explainer videos (I'm hoping someone will be along in a minute with her handle) but she's good. Explains it well

user50316 · 09/06/2023 22:59

Hattie Rowe. Just googled her!

https://www.tiktok.com/@hattiee*.rowe?t=8d28qWWN4Je&&_r=1

Barleysugar86 · 10/06/2023 01:37

Second the Elle post above- its hilarious and very insightful!

Honestly no, noone makes money at these. They are an exhausting thankless slog of self denial and then self hatred.

VapeHelp · 10/06/2023 02:14

I’m interested to know if Tropic works on a similar way? I’ve practically lost two friends to it but they assure me it’s not like an MLM and that they’re doing well out of it.

LifeIsPainHighness · 10/06/2023 02:19

VapeHelp · 10/06/2023 02:14

I’m interested to know if Tropic works on a similar way? I’ve practically lost two friends to it but they assure me it’s not like an MLM and that they’re doing well out of it.

Tropic is just as bad. I have to lost friends who’ve turned into Tropic bots. It’s so cult like and they literally worship that Susie woman, always banging on about ‘isn’t she amazing’ ‘isn’t she pretty’. Well actually she came across as a bit of a dipshit on the Apprentice.

I don’t understand how grown adults fall for this

BadLad · 10/06/2023 02:47

they assure me it’s not like an MLM and that they’re doing well out of it.

Good explainer on MLMs?
Sunnysidegold · 10/06/2023 07:11

I was going to suggest Elle beau's blog but I got really sucked in and read the whole thing in one sitting.

xraydelta · 10/06/2023 10:34

I'm always baffled by Utility Warehouse. They always claim not to be a MLM, and they sell a service not a product

But the pyramid scheme is there 🤷🏻‍♀️

YouOKHun · 28/06/2023 17:02

@IScreamMonday Sorry, late to this thread and I’m sure you’ve found what you’re looking for. Lots of good suggestions already but you could look at MLMtruth.org and the articles on the Talented Ladies Club website are excellent at pointing out the lies and realities of getting involved in MLM. I also like this infographic.

They all say they’re not MLM, they are “social selling”, “direct selling”, “influencer selling”, “network marketing” but they’re all schemes that rely on a never ending chain of recruitment and getting those recruits to “invest” in products - these internal sales are just a method of moving money up the pyramid. A tiny proportion of money is generated through product sales to true customers outside the scheme. Uplines are rewarded on what their recruits purchase, not on what those recruits sell to real customers. It’s scandalous these schemes are not recognised for what they are; pyramid schemes! What other scam where 99.6% of participants lose money would be allowed to continue unexamined and unregulated?

Good explainer on MLMs?
IScreamMonday · 29/06/2023 22:15

Good pointers, thank you. I'm still interested and reading around to try and get a handle on how they stay so successful for so long

OP posts:
YouOKHun · 29/06/2023 23:25

@IScreamMonday I think they have been able to thrive due to a combination of the internet/social media and the ability to reach many more people, a lack of regulation and a lack of recognition that these companies are not “direct selling” and a lack of awareness generally about what MLMs are. MLM is also a real bargain for the companies themselves; no employment costs, little consumer protection for their customers (their distributors), no marketing costs, not a lot of compliance for many of the products etc, and if they want to pull the plug on it they just send an email to the distributors and leave them to carry the can. The lack of flexible working and affordable childcare has driven people (mainly women) towards MLM too. The industry has been able to position itself as a viable alternative and it has lied about what is on offer, it appears to be very enticing too.

They really aren’t thriving now however. Take Forever Living UK. Their accounts at Companies House tell a different story to the positive story they want recruits to believe. Their top uplines who were making a lot of money back in 2015 are, with a few exceptions, barely making the minimum wage annually these days and they represent a tiny percent, it’s far worse for those further down the food chain. The previous success of the top uplines was not because the business model was viable or because they were good sellers but simply a matter of lucky timing and often having downlines positioned for them. Many who made money a few years ago have quietly been appearing on the insolvency register. Others are running huge directors loans with no real way of paying them off. Lots of distributors have peeled off to try their hand at network marketing coaching/gaslighting. The company and the main UK uplines are lying through their teeth about how well it’s going. The same is true for other MLM in the UK. People are wising up, many people have been approached already (multiple times!), there is a cost of living crisis which is making people more risk averse and they are not prepared to spend money on the promise of earning later. There are also many more victims who have come out of the other side. What they have to say, if they are not intimidated into silence, is pretty shocking really. There is now a pretty vocal anti MLM movement.

You might find the Botwatch threads on MN interesting. Also Robert Fitzpatrick in the US has written extensively about pyramid schemes (he won’t call them MLMs!). You might also find a podcast called The Dream interesting - it talks about the history of direct selling through to their mutation into MLMs. The BBC still has a documentary called The Secrets of the Multilevel millionaires on iPlayer, which is less about how they have survived, and more about the outcomes for some of their victims.

There’s an expert on cults in the US called Steven Hassan, he calls MLMs “commercial cults” and it’s a very accurate description. Part of their success has been the secrecy and manipulation and intimidation of recruits which has allowed MLM to go under the radar and made them difficult to examine. I think that has helped to extend the industry’s life too, but I’m not sure it’s going to be enough for it to survive.

IScreamMonday · 30/06/2023 10:47

That's really interesting thank you. I was reading the blog mentioned upthread on mentors and the similarities with cults were striking

OP posts:
DogInATent · 30/06/2023 10:57

IScreamMonday · 29/06/2023 22:15

Good pointers, thank you. I'm still interested and reading around to try and get a handle on how they stay so successful for so long

They survive on a combination of Desperation and Naivety.

There is no shortage of people desperate for easy money and naïve enough not to see what these schemes are. The genuinely believe they can push the sell onto their friends and social circle and still maintain those friendships and social relationships at the same time. They don't see that the overall scheme is one big funnel taking moderate amounts from lots of people and feeding it upstream to just a few individuals that are faking the serious money.

You've just got to watch out for the faux-naïve starter conversations that begin with the pretence of a general fishing expedition for something someone's heard about an MLM scheme, and then try to steer the conversation back towards vague positives hoping to snare a DM asking for more information.

Oh...

Hoppinggreen · 30/06/2023 11:01

VapeHelp · 10/06/2023 02:14

I’m interested to know if Tropic works on a similar way? I’ve practically lost two friends to it but they assure me it’s not like an MLM and that they’re doing well out of it.

It’s still an MLM
It’s a shame as I do like some of their stuff. I have bought some before on the agreement that I don’t want to sell it myself or hold a party.

IScreamMonday · 30/06/2023 12:18

DogInATent · 30/06/2023 10:57

They survive on a combination of Desperation and Naivety.

There is no shortage of people desperate for easy money and naïve enough not to see what these schemes are. The genuinely believe they can push the sell onto their friends and social circle and still maintain those friendships and social relationships at the same time. They don't see that the overall scheme is one big funnel taking moderate amounts from lots of people and feeding it upstream to just a few individuals that are faking the serious money.

You've just got to watch out for the faux-naïve starter conversations that begin with the pretence of a general fishing expedition for something someone's heard about an MLM scheme, and then try to steer the conversation back towards vague positives hoping to snare a DM asking for more information.

Oh...

Suggesting talking about MLMs automatically means this is an attempt at recruitment comes across as rather paranoid. There are hundreds of threads every day on all sorts of topics. If you have direct experience of MLMs that has made you suspicious even of this, feel free to share.

OP posts:
Angrymum22 · 30/06/2023 13:57

Please go to the Money topics and work your way through the MLM thread. It goes back to 3016 when many MLMs were at the height of their success.

Angrymum22 · 30/06/2023 13:57

Sorry 2016

CantFindTheBeat · 30/06/2023 14:13

Is the perfume company, FM, an MLM?

I know two sisters who both sell the perfumes, sticks and stuff - they've done it for years, have massive WhatsApp groups and a couple of high profile overseas holidays.

They do both have other full time jobs though so it can't pay a big amount.

confusedallthetime1 · 30/06/2023 14:17

Watch Hattie Rowe's videos she's brilliant! These companies pray on the desperate and skint, only a tiny percentage of the 'top earners' actually make any money these schemes should be illegal!

Crabwoman · 30/06/2023 14:22

LulaRich on prime is an interesting documentary on an MLM. Explains it all in detail and has interviews with all those involved

DogInATent · 30/06/2023 15:30

IScreamMonday · 30/06/2023 12:18

Suggesting talking about MLMs automatically means this is an attempt at recruitment comes across as rather paranoid. There are hundreds of threads every day on all sorts of topics. If you have direct experience of MLMs that has made you suspicious even of this, feel free to share.

On several social media groups I'm a member of just mentioning any of the MLM organisations will see an automatic suspension pending admin review. But that's in part because the members of those groups are perceived as easy targets for MLM plankton-feeders looking to work up a downstream.

The conversational strategy of floating MLM as an idea to gauge response, bounce back with "yes, buts", etc. is a strategy taught by the MLM cults. If you follow some of the links already given you should find covert videos taken in the sales seminars that cover this.

Maybe it's accidental you're following the playbook, in which case I'd apologize. But with MLM it's not paranoid to be suspicious first. It's a parasitical business structure that preys on the vulnerable destroying relationships and friendships.

Cassie71 · 30/06/2023 16:23

If you go to YouTube and search anti MLM, or MLM horror stories, you'll find an abundance of information.

IScreamMonday · 30/06/2023 23:17

DogInATent · 30/06/2023 15:30

On several social media groups I'm a member of just mentioning any of the MLM organisations will see an automatic suspension pending admin review. But that's in part because the members of those groups are perceived as easy targets for MLM plankton-feeders looking to work up a downstream.

The conversational strategy of floating MLM as an idea to gauge response, bounce back with "yes, buts", etc. is a strategy taught by the MLM cults. If you follow some of the links already given you should find covert videos taken in the sales seminars that cover this.

Maybe it's accidental you're following the playbook, in which case I'd apologize. But with MLM it's not paranoid to be suspicious first. It's a parasitical business structure that preys on the vulnerable destroying relationships and friendships.

Wow, I haven't watched videos as I don't love that format for getting information but now I'm intrigued and I will. It's a set of really impressive persuasion tactics. Fwiw I am genuinely just intrigued - and probably naive too in that I'd never come across these first-hand until the school mum experience.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page