Career change- clinical or ed psychology at 45?

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

I’m thinking of a career change. I am currently a teacher, earning 38K in an independent school. I’d like to work for NHS mental health services in some way and whilst I could take a slight pay cut temporarily I need to earn a bit more than this in the long run.

if I were to do a psychology conversion msc (I’ve figured out this much is doable) does anyone know what my chances are of getting an assistant ed psych or assistant clinical psychologist job in my late 40s and then being accepted onto a doctorate training for either of those professions? Are any mumsnetters doing these jobs and could you advise?

I am fairly confident I could handle the academic side of the doctorate training but it’s more the working life that I have questions about. Also do they give bursaries/ train people my age? I’d have about 20 years of service to give once trained, not sure if this is considered enough.

Alternatively is there a quicker route to being a cbt practitioner or similar in the NHS?

[Fraudornot]

You are definitely not too old and your life experience would be valued. They are both very competitive though and very different jobs.
The Ed psych role would be a more natural progression given your teaching role so therefore might be easier to get into. I haven’t done these jobs but have worked with people who do and all really enjoy the career and it seems endlessly interesting to me.
could you afford to drop a day at school and shadow someone in the roles or volunteer? Or get involved with any Ed psych or pastoral roles in school?
Hopefully someone along soon in the jobs to give some advice but good luck!

[cardboardbox24]

Do you have any experience of working in mental health? Once you have done the conversion diploma (is it now an MSc?) you will need to get paid experience of working in mental health before applying to the clinical doctorate- the only way you would get a highly competitive assistant post is if you already have relevant experience. The doctorate is paid as you are working as a trainee psychologist in the NHS on placement as well as doing the academic side.

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

Thanks @Fraudornot Yes I was thinking about Ed psych first, but I’m equally interested in both areas, also counselling psychology. I am trying to see a way to make the change that is affordable as we can’t afford much of a drop in income and I would like to know more about the practical side of the job and how well it fits in with family life.

it looks to me like I’d need to do the msc conversion and do pretty well, more than just a pass, then I’d need to get more experience ie an assistant job, then I could apply for the doctorate training. I’ve read that the assistant jobs are ‘like hen’s teeth’ and very competitive and that they only take the strongest applicants for the doctorates but once trained there are plenty of jobs. Does that sound about right?

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@cardboardbox24 ah I see no I don’t have any experience in mental health so I guess getting that assistant job would be unlikely.

it looks like Ed psych doctorates aren’t so well funded and there may only be a £15K bursary for the first year hence my looking at other options.

[AlligatorPsychopath]

Getting onto the clinical doctorate is hard. Really hard. The places are limited, the competition is intense. You'll need to do really well on your conversion, then scrounge for an assistant psychologist job, then work that for nothing or next to nothing while you apply 2 or 3 times to the doctorate to have a real chance of getting in. Are you up for that, and can you afford it? The mature adults I knew who went down this route could afford it because they were effectively fully subsidised by spouses.

[bellalou1234]

I'm a mental health nurse. There are so many roles within the field. I've just left inpatients for a crisis team

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@AlligatorPsychopath no sadly I need to bring in at least 30K a year to keep us afloat. Doesn’t sound doable then sadly

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@bellalou1234 can you think of a role I could step sideways into and still keep a reasonable salary?

[Shinyandnew1]

I know a number of EPs through work and none are very happy! All are looking to leave LA work and set up on their own-which brings its own stresses and financial worry.

Their doctorates were mostly done alongside working so they were earning but it all ended up costing a fair bit in the end-especially the one who didn’t get the research project finished in time the third year and had to fund a fourth year.

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

Ah that’s interesting @Shinyandnew1 maybe I’ve got a case of the grass looking greener anywhere else but in teaching. I’ve been doing the same job for a while now and because of my subject there’s not much variety. I fancied an intellectual challenge and I like the idea of potentially helping people who are in greater need than the ridiculously privileged environment I work in now

[Neolara]

I'm an EP. The profession is going through a bit of a crisis at the moment. If you end up employed by a local authority, the chances are you would spend the vast majority of your time doing statutory assessments, which can feel like a treadmill. There is much less variety in the role than even a couple of years ago and very little early intervention. At least, that is my experience. I'd be delighted if others said different.

It's very competitive to get on the EP doctorate. Even some of our fantastic assistant psychologists have had to apply 2 or 3 times before getting a place. They do get paid something while training, but I don't know how much.

There is a huge difference between what clinical and educational psychologists do. EPs do very little direct work with kids and people are often surprised by that. If you want to do mostly therapeutic interventions, clinical is the route to follow. If you want to do assessments and advise adults on approaches / strategies, do educational psychology.

[Shinyandnew1]

@AngryPurpleSleepingBag

Ah that’s interesting @Shinyandnew1 maybe I’ve got a case of the grass looking greener anywhere else but in teaching. I’ve been doing the same job for a while now and because of my subject there’s not much variety. I fancied an intellectual challenge and I like the idea of potentially helping people who are in greater need than the ridiculously privileged environment I work in now

You are not alone, @AngryPurpleSleepingBag !

I have read too many posts in the Exit the classroom and thrive Facebook posts and still can’t think of an exit plan!

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

I reckon I could do the msc conversion in 2 years and do well but then I’m worried the whole business of getting experience/ an assistant job and then getting a place on the doctorate might take me into my 50s and surely that would be considered too late to be worth doing the training. Why would the NHS invest that much in someone who would only have another 15 years to offer?

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@Shinyandnew1 i keep trying to count my blessings (the lunches are great and are free, the kids are nice, the work is easy for me, I have a nice room) but I really struggle with the idea of doing this for another 20 + years

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

You could do the conversion alongside working, and then get a job as an assistant Ep- that would pay about 30k and then save up to do the Ed psych doctorate. You'll get about 16k per year bursary so tax free during it- could you tutor to supplement income?

It's a good job and lots of options of working for LA or privately there is a shortage of people in the profession so always lots of work around.

Your age isn't a prioblem at all there are lots of second career EPs.

You WILL need some experience working with more vulnerable children and communities though- could you do this in the school holidays? Or evening volunteer with youth club etc??

[Unexpectedlysinglemum]

Another option is to do some mental health related courses eg mental health first aid and try to get a more pastoral based role such as sendco in your current school or another private school - you probably will have an easier less stressful life there!

[Astromelia]

Other potential routes into working in mental health - PWP or IAPT training course would get you delivering CBT interventions more quickly, though more likely in GP surgeries than in mental health. Except if you wanted to work with children in which case PWPs often are employed as part of CAMHS.

Mental health nursing is a 3 year degree, then you could get a community job and would likely manage to become CBT trained in a few years.

Other healthcare jobs - OT, social work possibly - would qualify you to then train in CBT and qualify as a CBT therapist. But you’d have to fund the training yourself.

I agree with the poster above - psychologist training is highly competitive and I would not recommend trying for it if you haven’t got lots of free time, few responsibilities, plenty of patience. I have known good candidates fail to get an offer after 3 years of Assistant Psychologist experience.

[Fraudornot]

@bellalou1234 i would second looking into mental health nursing. There are more variety of directions to take it and really good prospects for promotion. Worth looking into as the bursary etc may make it financially viable as a route and you may get some exemptions depending what your subject is. You would still need to show some experience I would have thought - nothing in a pastoral role you could get school to pay for?

[Blanketenvy]

Trainee CBT therapist jobs within NHS are band 6. 7 once qualified. You'd initially be working in primary care talking therapies service but could move into other areas once qualified.

[Turnleftturnright]

Msc in occupational therapy? You can go on to specialise in all sorts of areas including working in sensory integration in special schools, autism assessment, hospitals, community, cbt practitioner roles and as a psychological therapist in camhs. There are so many different areas with children or adults.

The msc is fully funded with an undergraduate loan plus at least an extra 5000 pounds, possibly more.

[Shinyandnew1]

@AngryPurpleSleepingBag

@Shinyandnew1 i keep trying to count my blessings (the lunches are great and are free, the kids are nice, the work is easy for me, I have a nice room) but I really struggle with the idea of doing this for another 20 + years

Snap. The worry of an overwhelming number of UPS teachers in their 50s suddenly finding themselves on support plans is always at the back of my mind as well…

I’ve considered counselling as well but looking into it more, that was a long and expensive training process. I know a couple of people who have done it and are enjoying the role (more than teaching!), but to be honest, both have high-earning spouses who funded the training/lack of salary and they only work part time in counselling now as it’s pretty intense-it’s certainly not been a lucrative career move for them.

[Blancmangemouse]

I’d say go for the conversion and see where it takes you. Your age would not be a barrier for EP training, and there is a bursary / salary for trainees. However it is competitive to get on the training and you would need a backup plan. Perhaps having done the Msc you would be in a good position to take up an advisory teacher role, go into private tuition / school consultancy, or perhaps remain in academia. Teaching in specialist SEN schools or further training in Play Therapy for example could all be options.

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@Neolara i missed your post thank you. This is all very helpful info. To be honest I like the sound of both educational and clinical routes for different reasons.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum i am not going to manage any volunteering any time soon. I work long hours and my own kids need me when I am free.

[Blanketenvy]

If no previous mental health experience you would need to get a trainee psychology wellbeing practitioner initially.

[AngryPurpleSleepingBag]

@Blancmangemouse yes that’s a good idea. I wasn’t sure if just having the msc would take me anywhere much but it’s interesting that there might be options