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Original poster

Is it ok for teen to cook rice at 8am to eat at lunchtime in school? It'll be kept in his school bag

151 replies

RiceRiceBabiy · 21/05/2023 22:41

for 5.5 hours until eaten.
This is regular basmati rice he wants to cook.

He has previously microwaved those packets of rice you can buy in the supermarket and taken those in with no adverse effects.

OP posts:
midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 11:48

queenofarles · 22/05/2023 11:30

Makes you wonder how do people in Asia and South America /Central America Survive then?
they keep rice in pots all day , no reheating or anything ,

Because survival isn't the same as never getting ill?

midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 11:53

As I previously said there are good reasons why you can't find absolute risk - Most people don't reheat / delay eating home cooked rice and to do randomised tests would b unethical

But I suspect that no one could really put a value on what risk the child should be prepared to take or what risk the parent should be happy with

It's against standard food hygiene advice

ringsaglitter · 22/05/2023 11:55

I've already said, I'm in Japan, married to Japanese and do the cooking as I've been taught how to here.
I'm from the UK and did food hygiene years ago which covered about rice food poisoning, but it's way out of proportion to the reality.

In Japan - never put rice in the fridge - leave it out to cool, keep at room temperature overnight and use as onigiri next day (this is not reheated).

Fried rice is made with day old rice, as it needs to have slightly dried out to stop it from being mushy.

On a side note - having worked in the kitchen of an Asian restaurant in London - be a little careful of take away rice etc, it might be on it's last legs when it gets to you 🤣🤣

I'd be very surprised if he gets poisoning from a mere 5.5 hour wait. It's the same with pasta poisoning. Honestly, relax.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

General education General food
midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 11:59

Interesting that sushi rice has added ingredients - vinegar and salt - that limit bacterial growth

PickoftheMix · 22/05/2023 12:07

The reason that rice is a risk is because bacillus cereus is a spore former. So you cook the rice and kill off any bacteria present or reduce them to a safe level, but spores are unaffected by cooking. When the rice goes through "the danger zone" of 5 - 63 degrees, the spores start to germinate and release the bacteria which will start to multiply and release toxins as it does this. The longer the rice is in this zone, especially between 20 - 50 degrees, the quicker the bacteria will be multlying and releasing poisonous toxins.

The danger with rice is the spores as they are unaffected (not killed) by normal cooking and the toxins, which also aren't killed by cooking.

Packet ready-to-eat rice goes through a process called a botulinum cook, the same as the canning industry, which means it is heated to 121 degrees under pressure for 3 minutes, so spores are killed.

queenofarles · 22/05/2023 12:12

As I previously said there are good reasons why you can't find absolute risk - Most people don't reheat / delay eating home cooked rice
I had a helper from the Philippines who would cook rice at 7am, eat it for breakfast , lunch and dinner , so more than 12 hours of not heated room temp rice, that’s how people all over Asia eat rice .

Original poster
RiceRiceBabiy · 22/05/2023 12:13

I think he would actually prefer to eat it warm or hot rather than chilled.
If, after cooking, it was put in a thermos flask, would that keep it hot enough to prevent the bad spore thingys growing?

OP posts:
midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 12:15

And that probably means people all over aisa have a higher chance of food poisoning

People smoked for years without getting cancer
Didn't mean there was no risk
( not that rice poisoning is the same scale )

Zarataralara · 22/05/2023 12:20

Worst food poisoning I ever from rice.
You could try cooking, cooling in iced water, drain and put in lunch bag with an ice pack.

queenofarles · 22/05/2023 12:27

And that probably means people all over aisa have a higher chance of food poisoning
I bet that majority don’t , some people don’t have fridges , cooked rice from the morning is the norm ,

I never heard of putting rice in the fridge and reheating it the next day,

PickoftheMix · 22/05/2023 12:34

RiceRiceBabiy · 22/05/2023 12:13

I think he would actually prefer to eat it warm or hot rather than chilled.
If, after cooking, it was put in a thermos flask, would that keep it hot enough to prevent the bad spore thingys growing?

Not all bacteria are spore formers, but the way spores work in the ones that are in lamens terms is: You have a bacteria happily living in the food. Then, as you cook it and the temperature starts getting too hot the bacteria thinks "oh I don't like this" so it basically forms a shell around itself to protect it (the science is obviously more complicated) and it can live in that "shell" (spore) for years. It's not killed by normal cooking or freezing, it's just dormant until the right conditions come along. The only way to kill it is if you heat it to 121 degrees for 3 minutes under pressure.

Then when you cook your food containing spores, the spore is still unaffected, but as soon as you leave it to cool, the spore thinks "oh I like this temperature now!" So it basically takes its coat off to reveal the bacteria again. The bacteria is then in optimum conditions to start multiplying and releasing its poisonous toxins. Obviously the longer you leave it the more time it has to multiply.

Bacteria need 4 things to multiply: Time, Temperature, Warmth, Nutrients. Take one away and they won't multiply.

smooththecat · 22/05/2023 12:34

A friend did get rice poisoning from rice left out overnight, it was really awful. Just keep it in the fridge or some kind of food flask, it’s not worth it. Heating makes no difference, as others have said, it’s not part of the consideration.

midgemadgemodge · 22/05/2023 12:36

queenofarles · 22/05/2023 12:27

And that probably means people all over aisa have a higher chance of food poisoning
I bet that majority don’t , some people don’t have fridges , cooked rice from the morning is the norm ,

I never heard of putting rice in the fridge and reheating it the next day,

Yet food poisoning is more prevalent in developing and poorer countries

ThreeRingCircus · 22/05/2023 12:37

The most ill I've ever been was when I had food poisoning from leftover rice that hadn't been reheated properly.... I had to go to hospital to be put on a drip. I know lots of people do it with no ill effects but if you do get ill from it it's absolutely dreadful, trust me.

Personally I don't mess around with rice for packed lunches as it's too much faff making sure it's properly cold quickly enough and reheated hot enough so I just use cous cous or pasta, both of which are safer in terms of food poisoning risk.

Coronationstation · 22/05/2023 12:59

RiceRiceBabiy · 21/05/2023 22:54

There is no fridge available in the school and he won't have time to chill it in the morning.
I guess cooking the night before is an option.

drain it in a sieve and run cold water through it, it cools really quickly.

ringsaglitter · 22/05/2023 13:07

@midgemadgemodge
Sushi rice is eaten fresh - the added vinegar and sugar are for flavor

Sushi isn't eaten daily here, but plain rice is.

W0tnow · 22/05/2023 13:37

RiceRiceBabiy · 22/05/2023 12:13

I think he would actually prefer to eat it warm or hot rather than chilled.
If, after cooking, it was put in a thermos flask, would that keep it hot enough to prevent the bad spore thingys growing?

We have thermos hot pot thingies that we use. I fill them with boiling water, leave it sit for a few minutes, then empty it and fill with whatever hot dish the kids have prepared (rice, pasta, chicken, whatever….) then seal it and it’s still hot at lunchtime.

they always forget to take cutlery!

RampantIvy · 22/05/2023 13:41

It strikes me that people don't understand risk or the difference between bacteria and toxins.

The risk from bacillus cereus poisoning are probably quite small, but having had it myself there is no way I would ever risk it again.

And of course people in rice eating countries get it. They probably won't attribute the diarrhoea and/or sickness to eating rice.

Zeonlywayisup · 22/05/2023 13:52

Whats he having it with? If you cool it down and he takes it cold he could either microwave it there or just add hot food to it?

RampantIvy · 22/05/2023 14:00

Schools don't have microwaves for pupils to use as far as I know.

Original poster
RiceRiceBabiy · 22/05/2023 14:04

No microwave available

OP posts:
Zeonlywayisup · 22/05/2023 14:51

@RampantIvy ours does but it’s sixth form.

what does he want to eat with it?

CovertImage · 22/05/2023 15:00

Redebs · 21/05/2023 22:53

It needs to be chilled quickly and kept cold.

I would cook it about half an hour before he leaves. Put some straight into a plastic tub, lid on and stand it in a shallow bowl of iced water. Give it a shake now and then.

Just before he leaves, dry it and pack in an insulated lunch bag with a couple of freezer blocks.

NONE of this is needed for rice that's being eaten within 5.5 hours of being cooked

RampantIvy · 22/05/2023 15:00

DD's sixth form weren't allowed one for "health and safety" reasons.

RemainAtHome · 22/05/2023 15:20

And of course people in rice eating countries get it. They probably won't attribute the diarrhoea and/or sickness to eating rice.

What makes you think that @RampantIvy ?
Do you think people in other countries aren’t able to deduce I’ve eaten rice with im ill the way people do in the U.K.? Why would that be??