Why are we on a steady downward decline

[Neverknowno]

What is the root cause of the UK’s downward slide? What is behind the low productivity?

Is it because we do not tax high earners enough to fund public services? Or are our taxes too high?

Is it because of the increasing number of the workforce going permanently off ill?

The first port of call for minor-middling mental ill health should be fresh air, eating properly, trying to get better quality sleep. But that takes discipline and effor

Or it takes time & money which people are often in short supply of...

How much is it for to foreign purchases?

I know from working with development sector it has been flowing in

Each of us in turn take the highest bidder, including those at the top who might get more from a foreign buyer

On one hand people talk about higher prices but and any level I I‘d like to see who says no you’re not my type of buyer I’ll take a lower amount instead

Too much compassion is what it boils down to.

A society that allows the best performers to keep more of their output will outperform a comparable society that forces them to pay more to carry the burden of the lowest performers.

Otherwise, low performers keep increasing and high performers keep decreasing and everyone keeps getting poorer as a result (becomes a lazier society without motivation to be productive).

We support way too many low performers now and it's pulling us all down. Need to push a portion to stand on their own feet to survive. Will there be some short-term suffering? Yes, but the alternative is long-term suffering for them, and us.

It all comes back to Brexit. Brexit is costing this country approx. £100 billion a year in lost productivity (according to Bloomberg research). The pandemic also cost us between £300-400 billion. Most other countries suffered similarly with costs related to the pandemic, but Brexit is the reason why the UK isn't bouncing back as well as those other countries.

Why? Because we lost a huge portion of our low-paid workforce, particularly the people who did farm work, factory work, service industry jobs, health and care work. They either left post-Brexit or during the pandemic and then they either didn't want to, or couldn't, come back.

The deal we got with the EU was shit. Business is tied up in red tape. Every lorry coming into the UK has to fill out 20 mins worth of paperwork that it didn't before. That's why we had no tomatoes in the winter - there wasn't a tomato shortage in Spain - but the paperwork meant they couldn't get here. Many businesses that rely on parts being imported from the EU have left. It's too expensive and too much trouble to be based in the UK when the parts you need are held up by red tape. Brexit was the most short-sighted, catastrophic bit of self harm this country could possibly have inflicted on itself.

Maybe if people were paid the wage they deserve they might perform better?

Well said @Garethkeenansstapler

Do people want that?

There was a guy from Itsu on this morning saying he had put up wages three times to get staff.

His solution was a two year visa so they could maintain the lower levels of pay.

I see many posts decrying lack of this kind of worker post Brexit, so what would the choice be - keep wages lower and do the visa or let the wages rise?

Actually l think it’s more to do with conditions. Zero hours etc.

If people were treated properly at work then they might be more enthusistac. Although I’ve never worked with anyone who’s crap tbh.

Lol, seriously, you think that's the issue?!

I think people are right to whinge.

Shit wages
Shit conditions
Shit NHS
Shit public transport.
Shit schools.

People are ground down and demoralised. When l think of the U.K. at the moment l just think of grey. Grey tired faces, grey falling apart schools, hospitals, infrastructure. Grey faces from insufficient warmth or nourishment. Grey commuters paying stupid prices for non existent trains. Grey exhausted public sector faces on strike. Britain is a dump atm. It feels like a post war environment.

It needs someone or something with the vision that built the nhs. A ‘post war’ vision for a better Britain.

I agree that zero hours contracts are shit for workers. Low pay is shit for workers too. But if businesses are going to pay higher wages, they'll charge more for their sandwiches, cups of coffee, whatever and people don't like that either. They want high wages, but cheap prices. Those things are mutually exclusive.

Brexit
Covid
Ukraine
Tax avoidance

Mostly Brexit

Yep

Itsu worried their prices are getting too high for customers is very much linked to staff wages

So minimise visas and lift wages or the reverse and get back to the cheaper labour?

It seems a contradictory want

They want high wages, but cheap prices. Those things are mutually exclusive

But maybe if they had higher wages they’d not be as concerned about cheap prices?

@maranella or maybe those at the top could stop trousering the profits? 🤔

Brexit

Not all businesses trouser large profits. You try running a coffee shop or restaurant and paying your staff over the odds while also keeping prices reasonable for customers.

Things are in the state they are because we DON'T make enough of a fuss about things. Substandard services are hardly new, but we are conditioned by older generations to be grateful for what we have, not make a fuss, and make do, etc.

We need to summon up some revolution level rage in order to see true change.

It's a toxic combination of poor, self serving leadership and voter apathy. Yes there are global factors too but let's face it, this current decline has been stirring since the 00s. We are the frogs in boiling water. In Scotland we teach modern studies at school from age 11 which is heavily focused on politics, a great thing BUT there's talk of social subjects being cut. Why?! So we give even less of a shit about the world? No joined up thinking from the top as usual.

I disagree. Fresh air is free. Mindfulness is free. You can eat well (not perfectly, but adequately healthily) cheaply if you need to. Sleep is free. Exercise is free. People just don’t want to do it. It’s easier to make an appointment and demand an expensive counsellor or psychologist, as well as medication.

@maranella true for small traders. However, if we’re talking about Itsu and similar chains - julian metcalfe is on the Sunday times rich list and worth in excess of £200m. Mike Ashley (king of zero hours) is worth £3.4bn. We are supposed to think their wealth is separate to the conditions of their workers, that paying people more would raise prices. That’s not true - and that’s why inequality has grown enormously. Capitalism is, at its core, a pyramid scheme, drawing money to the top. That takes it out of services (sold, privatised, run for profit), wages (zero hours, pay as little as possible) and housing (an asset, not a home)

Recipe for decline, surely?

Brexit.

High tax rates here in Scandinavia but I can see exactly where it's going and it's all making my life better. Education, roads and local infrastructure reinvestment, libraries, sporting facilities and opportunities, healthcare, childcare, etc...

Our problem as a nation is we care too much about our fellow Britons. A horrible affliction, to be sure.

Agree. We still live in one of the safest, liberated and most prosperous countries in the world.

Yeah, I know @godlikeAI and I don't know what the answer is. Thing is, if you raise wages across the board, small businesses won't be able to compete. So they close and then all we get is chains, which is already a big problem. I hate high streets that are dominated by the same boring shops everywhere you go. I love places with lots of small, independent businesses.

One thing is for sure - capitalism isn't going anywhere.