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Original poster

Court order

23 replies

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 08:57

Me and my partner have come to the end of court order over 7 months ago. We won everything we asked for on the grounds mother was being unreasonable.
I feel like mothers found a loop hole however! She is giving the children the option to come, we new that after to ‘fun’ of coming and the children realising it’s a change in routine they would struggle but she hasn’t supported this. Example - children were all set and excited to come the other day and grandma turned up at the time I was collected and they ran in and said not coming now, she said goodbye and didn’t encourage them. They struggle with transition from her to father but once away absolutely fine. She’s given the eldest a list of why she hates me and that’s what triggered him not to feel safe to come.

she drives to drop them off but will not get them out the car and has told father he is not aloud to lift them out. She also works at their school and in their classroom and we are currently dealing with that. So she is bringing them as per court order but then not attending to contact? How do we even begin to fight this? After 3 years and finally having some light she’s managed the make the narrative about what she wants again.

before going to solicitors again HELP any advice would be welcome. I feel like it’s not enough for an enforcement order but that’s what I feel like it needs before the children are put in a further state of turbulence (this is only touching on some of the things)

thankyou

OP posts:

snitzelvoncrumb · 13/05/2023 09:07

Why is it as issue that she works at the school? Can’t you enforce the court order if the kids don’t come? It sounds like mum brings them but then takes them home again? Is there someone you contact if a court order is breeched?

ElfDragon · 13/05/2023 09:14

How old are the children?

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 11:49

4 & 7 she’s bringing them then taking them home. He will go out and speak to them but Because he isn’t aloud to ‘lift them’ and she refuses to we are stuck. We sent an article we found on handling the change and handovers and she confirmed caffcast sent similar a while back but refused to talk about the advice we got.

She was taken on at school while court proceedings were happening and placed in their classroom. We have just asked for her to not be in their class due to separation issues.

is she breaking the court order though if she’s bringing them but then they are not coming? We know there is no encouragement, I document everything as She parks behind our tree so the ring door bell won’t record her not trying or even opening car door and if she does because we have pulled her up on it she opens and shuts it straight away 🙄 eldest mimics her her behaviour. Feels like even though we got the order it’s just a constant fight and I don’t think it would be enough for an enforcement order but we need something before it affects the youngest. Example of not encouraging is she requested in court that the word encourage not be in court order

OP posts:

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Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 11:53

Reaching out on here as we have spent 24,000 to get to this point. So just don’t want to start the ball rolling again for it to cost what we now don’t and won’t ever have again 🫣

OP posts:

OhmygodDont · 13/05/2023 11:56

Sounds hard. I guess she’s complying by making them available but then she isn’t helping when they decide to not go off with dad.

I wouldn’t want to see my child acting distressed being take away if that’s what you mean by lifting them. I’m not sure a court should force a parent to forcefully hand over a child again if you’ve got a child refusing to go and say lashing out.

Rock and hard place entirely.

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:04

They don’t lash out. The court order for youngest to be picked up from school, He cried the first time and been fine since. It’s when they are doing handover together he may get tearful but she won’t get them out the car, carry them, open door. She’s been saying they don’t have to which has caused them turbulence as it’s a choice they are not emotionally mature enough to make and we have to ensure they go home to her even if they ask not to and are crying? I’m just stumped now as to what can be done. Caffcast told her they would struggle as change of routine and said that her behaviour has effected the eldest but it’s not changing. I had the same with mine but persisted until they got use to change. They are safe when they are with him and no issues even if I do dislike him I would be denying the children that

OP posts:

marshmallowsforbreakfast · 13/05/2023 12:08

Without been rude, is the change in the beet interest of the children? If they aren't happy and don't want to go with you/get upset at pick ups then does the new routine need a rethink? She's taking them to the agreed court ordered drop offs etc. I wouldn't force my child to go anywhere they didn't want to either, by 'lift them' do you mean remove them against their will from the car?

Darthwazette · 13/05/2023 12:10

So she drives them to your house and sits in the car expecting them to get themselves out, you’re not allowed to help them out and then when they don’t get out she drives them home again? Or you’ve gone to collect them and she’s had their grandma arrives at the same time so they want to stay with mum and see Grandma?

Why is she so against the children having a relationship with their father?

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:16

No, as in she will not let him get them out the car. It’s a really long story. We have spent the last 3 years in court. The children were more than happy to come everytime however mother has done and said things which really effected the eldest. We have messaged and asked to change it to see if it helps and she won’t. The eldest doesn’t come to weekend contact dads offered to pick up from school and just walk him home and build on this and she won’t. The youngest is absolutely fine when he is collected from school or activities but it’s an issue when mums involved. Court picked her up on a lot in last hearing.

in my eyes flip it, if they are upset when they are with us and do not want to return home to mum can we keep them? No. It’s a change in routine that she just won’t support by any means. Even down to the being excited to come then grandmother turning up and them flipping. If it were us she would have gone mental for us allowing it.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:19

She didn’t want the relationship to break down and it was a really unhealthy relationship on both sides. I can see both their points. But I honestly feel that she is struggling to let go and accept the change as it is not what she wanted. The things she was asking for in court were ridiculous. She got everything in court up until this last hearing we have been to hell and back and thought we had some light

OP posts:

BananaCocktails · 13/05/2023 12:20

This is your partners fight not yours let him deal with it why are you so involved
maybe that’s what’s annoying her you are too involved perhaps

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:22

He struggles with the paperwork side so that’s what I’ve dealt with. Otherwise he speaks to her and deals with it all and they have to communicate with one another which I requested for him in court prefer. I’m simply ask what can be done next.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:24

Also it is my partner but it’s my home, my children and our family that is also very effected by the rollercoaster. We are a team and that’s how we work.

OP posts:

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 12:27

@Darthwazette both. That’s what happens when she does drop off and if he does collection that is just an example of what happens.

OP posts:

Darthwazette · 13/05/2023 12:29

I think your partner will have to go back to court. I’m not sure she is adhering to the order.

OhmygodDont · 13/05/2023 12:41

So he can open the door and say come on the kiddies let’s go and basically they just refuse to get out of the car and she won’t let him pick them up. But also doesn’t say anything like oh go on sweeties time to go see daddy she just sits in silence letting him try to convince them to leave the car.

throwaway201809 · 13/05/2023 12:46

I don’t see why he can’t just lift them out of the car. A 4 year old will probably need help getting out of the car anyway. He should just help them out of the car, simple no?

Reugny · 13/05/2023 12:56

If he can't get them out of the car them you need to think of another way of doing handovers.

Handovers done directly from school is the best way. Your DP needs to tell the head that him and his ex can't meet due to conflict that upsets the children so he needs to pick the children up from an area in the school where and when she isn't present. (Unless the school is completely shit they will agree.)

For those done outside term time then you need to see if you can sort out third parties on your part to pick them up from mum and hand them to dad and vice versa in a public place.

My DP uses family friends while other people use grandparents, uncles, aunts and even older teen half-siblings.

You will need to have it agreed in the Court order the address of the normal meeting place e.g. outside a particular cafe, at a monument in a town centre. You want somewhere that if either parent causes a scene it would be likely witnessed by a few people. Plus you will needed it added that 5 days notice of the name of the person doing the handover will be given. (When my DP was sorting this out through his solicitor DP's ex protested about one person which back fired as he then got people who knew both of them for years who she stopped talking to, to do it. She was embarrassed to see them. )

Reugny · 13/05/2023 12:59

throwaway201809 · 13/05/2023 12:46

I don’t see why he can’t just lift them out of the car. A 4 year old will probably need help getting out of the car anyway. He should just help them out of the car, simple no?

Yep mine does even though she is forward facing.

However the OP's ex will likely accuse him of damaging her car at some point.

Unfortunately some separated parents are just nasty as they want to control the other party.

Most people eventually calm down but a few never do. It's not great being one of the people at a friend's graduation or wedding who is trusted to keep their parents apart.

Lefteyetwitch · 13/05/2023 13:14

He doesn't need her permission to lift his own children. This is when he needs to show her she isn't in control and why on earth are you now going as LiP?

SprinkleRainbow · 13/05/2023 13:23

Have you tried Mckenzie Friends?

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 15:23

She won’t agree to vary the order. He doesn’t want to upset the children any further when she has told them they don’t have to go then he is the forcing them because she’s putting them in that situation. Does that make sense? Schools not been the best which we are addressing. She used the word ‘safeguarding’ a lot to stop him having access so we had it put in order ‘no safeguarding issues’ we were hoping with time she would get use to letting go of control and see both parents are just as important as each other but I just don’t think she can. I don’t know why my names changed? I just don’t know if it’s enough grounds for an enforcement order 🤷‍♀️ because she is still bring them or allowing them to be picked up but doing everything else to prevent?

OP posts:

Original poster

Lauren8919 · 13/05/2023 15:30

@SprinkleRainbow he has just messaged them. Thankyou

OP posts:

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