Should I have a relationship with my MIL for the sake of my children?

[PaintDiagram]

DP comes from an enmeshed family that family relations really went down south when we moved in together. To cut to the chase feel free to skip to the final couple of paragraphs.

Before we lived together DP lived around 10miles away from his parents, which caused 6 months of MIL wailing that he was too far away. When DP moved in with me MIL was inconsolable, for months when we visited she'd cry that she lost her son, I had stolen him, she'd try to have secret phone calls with me to guilt me to move closer to them, how could DP turn his back on his family, her inconsolable that I was going to deprive her of being a grandmother as she'd like to be able to have the baby at least three days a week or be able to pop in once a day, she also wanted consoling from my parents as 'never be able to be happy as long as they're not living close to us'. MIL also has done a lot of stomping around as she expects to see me once a week (we live a 100 miles away) and wanted a daily update into our plans 'hmm why are you seeing that friend for the WHOLE day, surely you won't be seeing her for the WHOLE day'..

We then got engaged, we're feeling top of the world, MIL actually did like me so was fairly happy that we were getting married. She wasn't happy that DP didn't involve her in the proposal plans nor use one of her rings. We called her straight after the proposal which the first thing she said was 'Son, you didn't want our help then...' then she was upset for months that DP stole the moment from her as it would have been nice for her to be included (one suggestion was her hiding around the corner with a balloon and card!) or for them to ring shop together.. At least once a week MIL would call DP upset about him stealing her moment which would always end in a row how unreasonable she is.

Obviously the wedding plans went down like a sinking ship, she thought she ought to be involved in every stage of the wedding, she was upset that we viewed venues without her, had meeting with the venue without her, wanted me to apologise to her for not caring that she was upset that we were doing our own guest lists (by not caring, that I wasn't agreeing that we should all do the guest lists together and told her that DP was in charge of half of the guest list, and nought to do with me), called me names/guilted me for not wanting her to go dress shopping with me, she wanted to wear a wedding dress to the actual wedding, she caused a row with DP over her wanting us to have silk flowers when I had organised fresh flowers then rowed with him for 'always taking her side and forgetting about her'. Apparently I'm disrespectful for politely asking MIL to stop disagreeing with every decision we've made for our wedding as it was making the experience more stressful than it needed to be. They gave DP an ultimatum that I needed to make it right with MIL (that I should understand how this is a big deal for MIL and that she just wants to make sure her son gets the wedding he deserves) or they wouldn't attend the wedding. I have had zero comms with them since they offered up this ultimatum which DP supports 100%. They then threatened to disown DP then reached out to him as they knew DP wouldn't be able to forgive himself if anything ever happened to them/if DP cared about them that he would visit. DP is keeping them at arms length and deals with them like they're both angry customers.

We're now expecting, again we're on top of the world, and PIL have demanded to have an active role in their grandchild's life. MIL wants me back in the fold which that's really not happening in a month of sundays. DP supports me 100% in my decision and completely understands. He feels a sense of a duty of having to have some form of relationship with them but really doesn't like them at all.

Now what's going to happen when we have the baby, I feel sick at the idea of them having contact with baby without my supervision but I never want to set eyes on them ever again. What's going to happen with Xmas, should I just suck it up and visit on boxing day for DC's/DP sake? Neither of us want to ever be close to PIL again, at best DP will see them a handful of times through the year and we're not going to bend over backwards to facilitate contact between DC and them.

DP did say they were good parents until he became an adult.

How do others deal with this? It's really making me feel down/anxious that they're going to have to visit once baby is born.

Id move to Australia

ssd - that's exactly what I was going to say

Witness protection?

I would just let your DP manage them and get on with your life.

Which may occasionally include having to smile and bite your tongue when you have to be in their presence

One thing is for sure and that is that they are not worth your anxiety. You may have to see them 5 times a year for a total of 15 hours? Something like that, and work out in your head how you will deal with that without it impacting your life.

They come and see the baby, they make annoying comments, you ignore them and even smile to yourself, and then they leave and you get on with your life.

Apparently Ascension Island is particularly difficult to get to as a UK territory...

In all seriousness though. No I wouldn't be making any effort with your in-laws. I'd be polite but unaccepting of nonsense if they visit you as arranged for short periods by your husband. I'd basically leave all effort entirely with him.

There's also zero chance they'd be allowed to have exclusive access as grandparents until your child is much, much older.

Oh god this is scarily similar to DH's parents. Scarily.

I'll tell you an abridged version of what happened for us... His mum was similarly bizarre about him moving away, I also got all the calls about how I'd stolen him.

They were horrified that they couldn't come to the hospital when I gave birth (Covid restrictions). They found any attempt at us doing any parenting unreasonable. His mum criticised a lot of what I did. She'd turn up bizarrely all the time. She demanded photos every day, and would print them and hand them out to everyone and anyone. She slowly got more insane and kicked off more and more often... alternating between saying she didn't see DS enough and we were withholding her grandchildren and claiming me and DS had ruined her life and stolen DH from her. It came to a head in November when we met up and she said she felt forced out, and ended up shouting at us and storming out. Me and DS haven't seen them since, DH has seen them once and they message him a few times a week saying they miss him. DS and I are not mentioned.

I wish I'd stuck to my guns and insisted that they had never shown us they could be reasonable people and I wouldn't gamble my son's first months/years on them trying; but I didn't want DH to feel stuck in the middle. It sounds like your DH is already at the point where he knows they are insane, and so hopefully you can avoid all of this.

There's no benefit to having a crazy MIL. I feel endlessly guilty that I exposed DS to her insanity. She hasn't hurt him, but he did see her shout and argue, and he's never seen that before or since. I'm also really sad and guilty that my memories of DS' first 9 months are heavily hampered by how unreasonable they were and how anxious I was. I wish I'd been a stronger person, and not let that happen.

Unreasonable people don't just change. Whatever plans you make, make them knowing that they'll likely be exactly as they are now, or worse.

Bejesus, your MIL has serious issues around separating emotionally from your adult DH! Is he an only child?
I'd be blocking her on my phone and let your DH deal directly with his 'D' mum.
DON'T give her any info around your due date or she'll be trying to get into the delivery suite!

Oh, and they won't ever have DS by themselves. DH wouldn't even have considered that, so it hasn't been a source of stress for us.

Although I think he knows they wouldn't have wanted him, either, they only really care about DS to either make themselves look good or force contact with DH.

My god mil sounds like the stuff of nightmares.
I would not under any circumstances be happy for my child to be there without my supervision to be honest. I wouldn't trust mil to massively overstep in some way and I would be worried about her taking negatively about you in front of the kids. Tbh I would say this is time for dh to have an extremely first conversation with both of them and explain that you are both concerned about their ability to respect your choices and decisions as parents because they have consistently proven themselves unable to respect your choices and decisions as adults which has permanently damaged the relationship between you all. I would agree some very clear boundaries between yourself and dh eg no overnights, no unsupervised contact, no bad mouthing you or your parenting decisions in front of the children, no taking them out alone without one of you present and no undermining your parenting. Once you have your list that you're both happy with then I think dh needs to go to them and say that these are the conditions to them having an active part in grandkids lives and if they cannot stick to these conditions then they won't have a part.

Grandparents are not owed access to grandchildren when they act in harmful or disrespectful ways including in how they act towards the parents. I personally would go as much as I'd hate to see them again but moreso because I would want to be there to watch how they interacted with my kids.

A lot depends on whether or not you think they can be good grandparents or whether they are likely to act inappropriately or against your decisions and choices regarding your kids. I also think a lot depends on how able you tin dh would feel to enforce your agreed boundaries if he takes them alone. Would he be strong enough to pack the kids up and leave if they cross a boundary repeatedly? It sounds like they don't respect him and still feel the need to control aspects of his life so it might be harder for him going alone than going with you for visits. I think if they come to see baby when they are just born, they stay elsewhere, it's for a limited time that you agree on and dh is the one to enforce that.

I think you give them a chance to adhere to your boundaries and if they can't, then that is on them and you act accordingly.

I'm so sorry you have to deal with all that nonsense though.

I would combine two people's ideas that have already been posted. Move to Australia AND go into witness protection.

Seriously you need to stand your ground here and do what you think is best. I cannot stand to be in the same room as my MIL and she has never done anything on the level of your MIL.

I think moving further away over time isn't a bad idea. I'd say if you live 3 hours or more away and make sure that any spare rooms are not available for them to stay overnight in then you should be in the sweat spot.

Wow. Australia does look appealing.

I'd get DH to agree that your baby won't be left alone with them and then let him off to navigate his relationship with them which will probably including bringing baby over to visit. And lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth. And agree, tell them nothing about your due date or when you go to hospital etc.

Wow, I thought my MIL was crazy. This is insane.

Don't let them make you anxious and don't even consider letting your child seeing them without your supervision until they are older.

I would stick to your guns, no contact with them and no info about your child. Your DH can visit them all he likes.

I'd like to suggest New Zealand. What the hell did you marry in to?

Anyway, these sort of people do not deserve a loving and close relationship with your children. You need to protect your children from them.

I don’t have a relationship with PIL. However if DH wants one that’s up to him. I have allowed them in my home once following the birth of each child at which time I said hello politely then went upstairs for a nap while they stayed and met the baby etc. After that DH takes the kids to see them on occasional weekends. I trust him to ensure their care he knows what they are like.
Its perfectly possible for your DH to facilitate a relationship with the child if he chooses to and you don’t have to be a part of that

They don’t change I’m afraid. Well mine
never did. Let your OH facilitate the relationship if he wants to. Tell them only what they need to know. Keep your chin up and if you both want to then move far enough away from them.

I think it might be worth asking your DH @PaintDiagram if they were good parents or were they only good because he was doing as he was told (or too scared to do anything else) when he was a child. If it's the later do you want your children to be similarly conditioned?

Nah, fuck that.

I finally flipped and got fed up of smiling along.

PIL have now only seen the DC twice in a year and at our home. They can’t have them alone as I don’t trust them due to last behaviour.

I have been painted as the antichrist but I don’t care.

She's a nutcase. I'd be keeping my dc away from someone like that. As far away as possible.

This.

Absolutely do not open yourself back up to any of this nonsense. You haven’t even seen how crazy this could get if you haven’t had a child yet. Protect yourself and your child.

Thank you all for making me feel validated.

I've heard a few times from different people in RL that 'he's still his mum/it's still her grandchild'.

We have joked a few times around the idea of moving to Australia. He's told MIL the wrong hospital just 'in case' she gets wind that i'm in labour/having to stay in hospital.

I don't think it's going to be too long before DP cuts her off entirely as every communication he has with them they fly off the handle that he needs to do more to save the relationship - right now he's told them he's not in the mindset to have any communication with them (but he's only intending to have a break from them for a couple of weeks).

She is an absolute nutcase, there's so many things she's said or done that sane people don't do. She has zero tact either, she can't help but fly off the handle into victim mode if things aren't going 100% her way. Once she flew off the handle as DP told her that she needed to learn to respect our boundaries and we're not going to have a good relationship if she was to always overstep them. Obviously I was the person in the wrong as 'we don't do boundaries in this family' and I needed to learn how they do things. Apparently boundaries are for families that aren't 'close'.

DP sent her a picture of our baby scan and I must admit it made my skin crawl that it's in her possession (DP clipped out all the personal info before sending it).

I'm planning on napping upstairs when she comes to visit the baby but I hate the idea of her even touching the baby.

I'd try and let all this be dealt with by your DH. Try and not give it any headspace and do whatever works for your husband. She does sound deranged even by Mumsnet standards.

I loathed my FIL with a passion (and very good reason) but I mentally took myself out of the equation and simply supported my DH with whatever he wanted to do. I didn't rant about him or have an opinion about him unless I was directly asked. He meant nothing to me and I didn't allow him in my head

This.

I have nothing to say about my pil.

(But I did move to another country. Taking their DS with me...

Whilst we only have to see MIL once every 6 months or so, and NEVER FIL as he has never left the UK, the visits are more intense. 5-7 days, which I suppose is still less than dinner once a fortnight. But there is no escape during those times. Fortunately, we live in a wine region!)

I know you don't want to see her, but honestly, do not EVER let her be around your DC without you being present. Never, ever, ever, ever.

If she even LOOKS like she is going to kick off, you walk out of the room with your DC and your DH deals with her.

Oh, and re Australia, need any recommendations/help?! 😉

It sounds like your DH is on your side and will stick up for you, is prepared to go no contact if she misbehaves. What is his dad like?

Decide what you are willing to do pre birth, and stick to it. Give her the wrong due date- maybe 3 weeks/month after the actual date so she won’t be expecting it. Make sure if they visit they stay in a hotel. I would greet them and then take myself off upstairs for a sleep or something. She is mad but will treat the baby well, if you’d find it hard to watch her just take yourself away but obviously your husband will be there.

It’s pure manipulation and you are probably the only people that have not tolerated it, just don’t react, grey rock it all. And if she’s out of line- no contact. She’ll loose out on her grandchild. Does she have any other children?

If you meet up with them and the baby, even if it's just dog and baby, meet half way. At a coffee shop eg. Then you can leave easily and not try to kick them out.
Also they're not 'tainting' memories at your home.