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Original poster

Did I undertake?

42 replies

TimesRwo · 08/05/2023 18:11

Not a big deal (I don’t think), and whilst I did strictly speaking undertake, I don’t know if this counts! So grateful for guidance.

I was on the motorway, where the left lane was going to pull off to the M25 in around a mile’s time and the right two lanes were going to carry on.

I needed to get onto the M25 so went into the left lane doing 70. There were then two cars in the middle lane / left lane going straight ahead doing about 60. No other cars around in sight.

I therefore carried on doing 70, being I undertook those two cars, even though my lane was for a different direction. I wouldn’t have thought much of it but one of the drivers started honking and shouting at me. Genuinely unfazed by his aggression, I just wanted to know if I was meant to hold back and not undertake.

I did the same thing coming off the motorway later on in the journey, where the exit lane which again runs for around a mile was mostly clear, but the 3-4 lanes of the m25 was busy. I drove past all the cars.

Just to clarify, it’s not one where you’re immediately at the junction, you drive for around a mile in that lane before you get to the exit, but the signs above are very clear that the left lane is for X road, and the right lanes are for carrying on.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Original poster
TimesRwo · 08/05/2023 18:13

Sorry to clarify, I know I was undertaking, but I was wondering if it’s permitted in those circumstances.

OP posts:
GordanoBenito · 08/05/2023 18:13

I'd say that if the lane is signposted as being for a specific exit only then it's not undertaking.

CindersAgain · 08/05/2023 18:14

If it’s a separate lane it’s ok. Like going somewhere else. So I think that’s ok.

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Driving & parking
SoupDragon · 08/05/2023 18:15

I think it depends on the lane markings. The spacing of the dashes changes when it becomes the exit lane.

Original poster
TimesRwo · 08/05/2023 18:15

GordanoBenito · 08/05/2023 18:13

I'd say that if the lane is signposted as being for a specific exit only then it's not undertaking.

Yes, it very clearly said that specific lane was for the M25, and similarly the A1 when I was getting off. If you were staying on the motorway, you would need to get out of that lane.

OP posts:
MolkosTeenageAngst · 08/05/2023 18:18

My understanding is it’s still undertaking if the road markings indicate that cars in the middle lane are still in a position to pull over into the left hand lane. Once the lane fully splits and the road markings indicate that the cars in the middle lane can no longer move into the left hand lane then you’re essentially on two different roads rather than separate lanes of the same road so it’s okay to be going faster than traffic on the other road. If the markings indicated that cars were still okay to move from the middle lane to the left hand lane then the left hand lane should be going slower, even if it’s signposted to be going somewhere different, because otherwise the undertaking car is at increase risk of causing a collision with a car wishing to change lanes as cars aren’t always checking efficiently to the left.

SwanUppmanship · 08/05/2023 18:31

@YaWeeSkitter this link isn't that clear!
If I were in the left hand lane and was driving at 70 and the middle lane was driving at 65, is there an expectation that the left hand lane slows down to 64? Even if it's just me in the left hand lane?

@TimesRwo I would see undertaking as driving along in the middle lane and meeting Mr 65mph and moving left, speeding up and then moving back in front of Mr 65mph once I'm past him.

plasticpens · 08/05/2023 18:33

TimesRwo · 08/05/2023 18:13

Sorry to clarify, I know I was undertaking, but I was wondering if it’s permitted in those circumstances.

No of course it isn't.

It is undertaking until the white lines change to mark the lane that's going off.

Your course of action is overtake or slow down. Slowing would have been the right course of action.

plasticpens · 08/05/2023 18:34

I have just read your further list so please ignore me it sounds like it was a separate lane you were in, I thought it was upcoming.

Can you screenshot mao for clarity

Lovelydaytomorrow · 08/05/2023 18:37

Yes, it's still classed as undertaking, and dangerous in that the driver in the 'straight on' lane may make the move into the left lane to turn off at any point. Technically, what you should have done is overtake the cars from your lane and then move back into it.

However, the last motorway junction on my regular commute had a long lane on the left to come off like this, but the two straight on lanes could become quite conjested from this point on, so I always wondered at what mph it is still considered undertaking. So for example, if I moved into the (clear) left and the rest of the mototorway was slowed to 60, I'd slow to 60 and not undertake. But if the rest of the motorway slowed to 10mph, of course I'd undertake that queuing traffic and continue in my lane to exit the motorway (obviously not at 70mph)-and I'm absolutely certain no police or highways car would crawl along the left hand lane for a mile at 10mph or less. But somewhere inbetween it must hit the threshold!

Lovelydaytomorrow · 08/05/2023 18:40

SwanUppmanship · 08/05/2023 18:31

@YaWeeSkitter this link isn't that clear!
If I were in the left hand lane and was driving at 70 and the middle lane was driving at 65, is there an expectation that the left hand lane slows down to 64? Even if it's just me in the left hand lane?

@TimesRwo I would see undertaking as driving along in the middle lane and meeting Mr 65mph and moving left, speeding up and then moving back in front of Mr 65mph once I'm past him.

Yes, your first example is absolutely what undertaking is.. And incredibly dangerous.

The other car is also in the wrong and should not be driving in the middle lane when the left is clear, but that doesn't mean that you can drive illegally amd dangerously, just because they are.

thedogisstaring · 08/05/2023 18:41

I wouldn't worry about it. The problem is dickheads doing 60 in the middle last in the first place. You did nothing wrong op.

Crimblecrumble1990 · 08/05/2023 18:47

I think that's technically undertaking. But I would have done the same and not sure why the other driver was mad at you when they were clearly not driving correctly...

Hazydayss · 08/05/2023 18:49

Yer it's undertaking, but I would be fuming at the dicks hogging the middle lane, happens to me all the time I either have to smash it past them to over take, slow down or undertake, all because people can't drive properly on the motorway, makes my blood boil and could cause an accident.

WeWereInParis · 08/05/2023 18:53

Hazydayss · 08/05/2023 18:49

Yer it's undertaking, but I would be fuming at the dicks hogging the middle lane, happens to me all the time I either have to smash it past them to over take, slow down or undertake, all because people can't drive properly on the motorway, makes my blood boil and could cause an accident.

They're not in the middle lane though. I think OP is talking about a situation where the lanes are marked as left hand lane exits to junction X, other lanes carry on. She's talking about undertaking cars in the left most lane of the carrying on traffic, while in the exiting lane.

VirginiaQ · 08/05/2023 18:56

Well this is the issue with the middle lane hoggers. It happens more times than it should. Only the other day I was on the motorway and there were loads of cars in the the middle lane. I was doing 65 on the inside lane which was pretty clear but I needed to come off at the next junction. I had to undertake several cars and it just wasn't possible for me to slow down enough to pull over to the right and overtake them. I'd have missed my junction but they all seemed oblivious and carried on in the middle lane.

SaltyGod · 08/05/2023 19:00

If it was a mile from the exit, and the lines on the road were normal, then yes you were undertaking. I can see why you would have done it however. Once the lines change, it's clearly a feeder lane and you're fine.

We have a similar set-up near us and I find that at about 1/2 a mile before the official change everyone treats the left lane as you've described. I've never seen anyone flashed or honked.

ShinyShite · 08/05/2023 19:01

If you were driving in the lane clearly marked as the slip road for the M25 then you were not undertaking. It would have been far more dangerous to slow down and stay pootling alongside the car on your right hand side.

Some people don’t know how to drive safely on a motorway and stick to the middle lane through a mixture of fear and ignorance. 🤨

Hobbi · 08/05/2023 19:02

It's not undertaking. Your lane was moving at a higher, but still legal speed and you didn't perform a specific manoeuvre in and out of the lane to pass on the inside. The link to the RAC is quite clear on that.

SoupDragon · 08/05/2023 19:02

SaltyGod · 08/05/2023 19:00

If it was a mile from the exit, and the lines on the road were normal, then yes you were undertaking. I can see why you would have done it however. Once the lines change, it's clearly a feeder lane and you're fine.

We have a similar set-up near us and I find that at about 1/2 a mile before the official change everyone treats the left lane as you've described. I've never seen anyone flashed or honked.

I've just looked at my nearest motorway junction and the lines change right on the "1 mile to go" overhead sign. I was surprised it was that far ahead of the junction.

Hobbi · 08/05/2023 19:03

From the link provided:
"The Code though, advises that it’s OK for a car to undertake in slow-moving traffic, if its lane is moving faster than a lane on the right.
In these circumstances it’s deemed safer to undertake than to weave in and out of the traffic."

plasticpens · 08/05/2023 19:06

Hobbi · 08/05/2023 19:03

From the link provided:
"The Code though, advises that it’s OK for a car to undertake in slow-moving traffic, if its lane is moving faster than a lane on the right.
In these circumstances it’s deemed safer to undertake than to weave in and out of the traffic."

OP scenario isn't about slow moving traffic. That is where the lanes are crawling not doing 60/70

terriblyangryattimes · 08/05/2023 19:09

It's no issue. I've also just my husband who is an ex driving instructor.

People who go slower than the flow of traffic wind me up immensely and (I know it isn't right) I've been known to undertake on a normal motorway when this is the case - usually someone sitting at 60 on the lane closest to the barrier holding people up but not moving over.

SaltyGod · 08/05/2023 19:12

@SoupDragon

Interesting, I will check this junction out when I do it next.

It feels much shorter than a mile but I suppose a mile goes quickly at 70mph when whizzing (legally) past the slower traffic on the right.

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