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Original poster

Another Royal thread. I apologise but bear with me...

23 replies

WildRosie · 06/05/2023 21:21

Camilla (Windsor?) is now Queen, not Queen Consort, whatever anyone thinks about that. My question: in the event that Charles predeceases his wife, William becomes King and Catherine becomes Queen. We would then have two queens, C & C. Is that allowed under our Royal constitution? Would Camilla be retitled, so to speak, or would Catherine have to wait until Camilla pegs it before she gets to be Queen? Any ideas?

OP posts:
AnonGCMum · 06/05/2023 21:23

It’ll be fine, we had two Queen Elizabeths for ages (remember the Queen mum?!)

Whatthediddlyfeck · 06/05/2023 21:24

She would still be Queen Camillia…when Queen Elizabeth 2 came to the throne, we had 3 queens-we had Queen Elizabeth 2, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother and Queen Mary

Whatthediddlyfeck · 06/05/2023 21:24

Camilla not Camillia

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ElfDragon · 06/05/2023 21:26

I assume Camilla would get a different title. Perhaps dowager Queen?

After all, we had Queen Elizabeth, the Queen mother at the same time as Queen Elizabeth II. The Queen mother had obviously been Queen (husband of King, obvs, not in her own right) before the King died, but once the Queen gained the throne, QM had to be re-styled as there can only be 1 queen.

Whatthediddlyfeck · 06/05/2023 21:27

ElfDragon · 06/05/2023 21:26

I assume Camilla would get a different title. Perhaps dowager Queen?

After all, we had Queen Elizabeth, the Queen mother at the same time as Queen Elizabeth II. The Queen mother had obviously been Queen (husband of King, obvs, not in her own right) before the King died, but once the Queen gained the throne, QM had to be re-styled as there can only be 1 queen.

See above re when there were 3…only 1 reignal Queen, but 3 Queens

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 06/05/2023 21:29

Camilla would be HM Queen Camilla.

Catherine would be (as Camilla is now) HM The Queen.

2Hot2Handle · 06/05/2023 21:30

Different sources seem to say different things in terms of Camilla’s title. One source says that she would become Queen Dowager. Prince William would be crowned King and Catherine would gain the title of Queen Consort. In Queen Elizabeth’s case, her mother was known as The Queen Mother. A way would be found to give them both the Queen title, I should imagine.

WimpoleHat · 06/05/2023 21:30

Camilla (Windsor?) is now Queen, not Queen Consort, whatever anyone thinks about that.

No - she is the Queen Consort. (As opposed to the late Queen, who was the monarch and Queen Regnant.). The Queen Mother was Queen Consort, so was Queen Mary; the convention, however, has been that they’ve been referred to as “the Queen”. I think that part of the reason the press has used “the Queen Consort” is that “the Queen” inevitably conjures up an image of QE2 and it just avoids any confusion.

As others have said, if Charles dies, Kate would become the Queen (Consort) and Camilla would be the Dowager Queen (Consort). If previous convention is followed, they’d be HM Queen Camilla and HM Queen Catherine (although the latter would be “the Queen” in common parlance).

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 06/05/2023 21:32

2Hot2Handle · 06/05/2023 21:30

Different sources seem to say different things in terms of Camilla’s title. One source says that she would become Queen Dowager. Prince William would be crowned King and Catherine would gain the title of Queen Consort. In Queen Elizabeth’s case, her mother was known as The Queen Mother. A way would be found to give them both the Queen title, I should imagine.

It wouldn’t need a way.

Camilla would be dowager Queen, as Elizabeth was. Elizabeth became known as QEQM so that there was no confusion with her daughter.

Mary was Dowager Queen and Queen mother, but was simply known as HM Queen Mary as there was no confusion between her and Elizabeth. Would be the same with Camilla and Catherine.

eddiemairswife · 06/05/2023 21:33

I think the Queen Mother gave herself that title to distinguish herself from her daughter. Queen Mary stayed Queen Mary after her sons succeeded to the throne.

Original poster
WildRosie · 06/05/2023 21:34

Thankyou all. I'd pay good money to see the confrontation between C&C when the subject comes to a head; 'There's only room for one Queen round here and it ain't you...grandma/girl (delete as appropriate)'.

OP posts:
tiktokboom · 06/05/2023 21:38

I know I could google this but can someone summarise for me why Phillip was a prince and not the king consort, please?

nancy75 · 06/05/2023 21:41

King trumps Queen! The title of King is ‘above’ the title of Queen. Any man marrying a Queen can only be Prince or Duke because the person born Royal has to have the highest title

Whatthediddlyfeck · 06/05/2023 21:41

tiktokboom · 06/05/2023 21:38

I know I could google this but can someone summarise for me why Phillip was a prince and not the king consort, please?

Because King always outranks Queen (not just in chess!) and a consort can’t outrank a monarch, see also Queen Victoria and Prince Albert

PoseyFlump · 06/05/2023 21:43

Perhaps we should put it to a public vote like they did with Boaty McBoatface.

I'll vote for Queen horse face and Queen, wife to Peggy.

tiktokboom · 06/05/2023 21:44

Urgh, so just the usual institutionalised sexism then.

luckylavender · 06/05/2023 21:44

2Hot2Handle · 06/05/2023 21:30

Different sources seem to say different things in terms of Camilla’s title. One source says that she would become Queen Dowager. Prince William would be crowned King and Catherine would gain the title of Queen Consort. In Queen Elizabeth’s case, her mother was known as The Queen Mother. A way would be found to give them both the Queen title, I should imagine.

I thought Charles said recently that in this instance, Camilla would become Mother of the Nation.

CarolinaInTheMorning · 06/05/2023 21:46

nancy75 · 06/05/2023 21:41

King trumps Queen! The title of King is ‘above’ the title of Queen. Any man marrying a Queen can only be Prince or Duke because the person born Royal has to have the highest title

Not necessarily. Henry, Lord Darnley, was King consort of Scotland during his marriage to Mary Queen of Scots.

PollyPeptide · 06/05/2023 21:46

She's not called Queen Consort now but she is still a Queen Consort. Ie, her title is through marriage not through inheritence.

PaperwhiteTheGhost · 06/05/2023 21:47

eddiemairswife · 06/05/2023 21:33

I think the Queen Mother gave herself that title to distinguish herself from her daughter. Queen Mary stayed Queen Mary after her sons succeeded to the throne.

Queen Mother is an actual thing, it was used for years but fell out of fashion. It means the widow of a sovereign and mother of the reigning monarch (even if that’s a king). It wasn’t used by Queen Victoria’s mother as she was not married to a king, Victoria was a niece, so it fell out of fashion. Queen Elizabeth ll brought the title back for her mother- there are loads of unused titles that can be bestowed by monarchs when they wish, usually for special occasions, for example William and Kate being created Duke and Duchess of Cambridge on their marriage.

PaperwhiteTheGhost · 06/05/2023 21:48

tiktokboom · 06/05/2023 21:44

Urgh, so just the usual institutionalised sexism then.

Kind of, but not always. A marchioness and a duchess both outrank and Earl for example.

Lovingitallnow · 06/05/2023 21:51

Queen Mary explains it in an episode of season one of the crown.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 06/05/2023 21:53

eddiemairswife · 06/05/2023 21:33

I think the Queen Mother gave herself that title to distinguish herself from her daughter. Queen Mary stayed Queen Mary after her sons succeeded to the throne.

She used it to distinguish herself, rather than gave herself it.

Mary was Queen mother, same with Alexandra, but there was no chance of confusing the new Queen so never needed to be used.

It’s kind of another example of the Princess of Wales / Duchess of Cornwall titles - they don’t alway use all of their titles.

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