Would you complain to nursery?

[BrightonBeach83]

Feeling emotional right now and no-one to speak to so looking for perspective. Would be grateful for any advice. Sorry this is long. My son attends nursery full time and he is 2.5.

Recently the nursery has had staff shortages and constant staff changes in his "room". There have been loads of different agency staff. The lovely room leader left and they replaced him with someone from the office who seems to not want anything to do with actual children, just sitting on her computer, sweeping up and telling other staff what to do but never says a kind word to a child.

My son has always loved nursery and is a happy bubbly child, however since these changes started happening in January he has started saying he doesn't like nursery, doesn't want to go in etc. This is not like him. He and another child have also been fighting, hitting, biting, scratching each other. There have been countless incidents and forms to sign. Both children are equally to blame and they just seem to annoy each other and be super competitive over toys etc. We have asked that they keep them apart where possible and keep an eye out but it has continued.

The worst thing is the mornings. At drop-off we often see no staff we recognise - the are all temp staff who don't know his name. DS is then really reluctant to go in the room and starts crying. Not one person comes over to greet him, says good morning, or comes to help settle him. There are two staff left of the original team who are great, and when either of them are in they are so helpful, coming over to us, welcoming my son, giving DS a high 5 or a cuddle, and getting him engaged in an activity or a toy. I am always SO relieved when I see that one of these two kind staff are in. However, due to their shifts, on most days neither of these two are there in the mornings and my son sees no-one he knows, apart from the new room manager. She completely ignores us, never says morning or tries to help.

Today my son was really upset and teary and I spent 30 minutes in the room trying to get him engaged in something so that I could leave. He kept saying he didn't want to go in. I could see he was sad and overwhelmed and he threw a toy on the floor, at which point the room leader told him off, but that was the only thing she said to him while I was there. I am not happy to walk away with him screaming and crying for me and I want to engage him in something, and in any case I could not have walked away if I wanted to as he was clinging to me and no-one came to help. During this time DS ran over to the other child to grab a toy and they hit each other. I had to pull my son away and this happened twice. The new room leader was oblivious.

In the end I approached an agency person and asked her to please take my son as he was upset and had been fighting another boy. She the reluctantly did so but with no effort to engage my DS or be nice to him, make him laugh or anything, and so it didn't work and he was reaching it and crying for me. It was awful but I had to walk away.

I came away and burst into tears and am now meant to be working. I feel so sad and terrible for my son.

I think he will be safe but I am concerned at the lack of engagement / kindness and the fact that not one person comes to greet him when he arrives in the mornings. He is due to move to preschool room in the summer and we are waiting for that now as the room leader there is great and he loves her and I hear good things from other parents about the structure. If it wasn't for that then I would be looking for a new nursery. The fighting, hitting, biting etc has happened numerous times too and I can see why as the children just seem to run around and no-one intervenes.

The current room appears to have zero structure and only two people who actually seem to enjoy working with young children.

I blame the government for the shitty staffing situation but should I also complain to the manager? Surey this is not good enough, or is this a common experience?

I would make a formal complaint but also withdraw him from the nursery. They don't care. You need him to be with people who care.

The problem is that we are in an area where nursery waiting lists can be up to a year. It wouldn't be a case of just withdraw and find somewhere new just like that. Also, with the room move to the preschool in the summer we are holding on to that as we know the room leader there is great and DS loves her.

Lack of staff engagement and supervision is why I withdrew my son from his last nursery.
he ended up in a&e twice and after he left an ofsted inspection rated it inadequate- main points being around child safety and lack of supervision. Ratios were correct but staff weren’t engaging and not paying attention.

go with your gut and find somewhere else

Could you ask them to move him early? Or is the room full?

I'm not sure if a complaint is going to help but a childminder might be better for the continuity angle? There are shortages of school teachers too and I think that they end up hiring anyone who will turn up because they can't afford to be picky. The manager will want the best staff for the job too - I would assume that it's more expensive and time
consuming to have temp staff so the complaint being pointless.

Definitely complain to the manager, head office if it is a chain and Ofsted. It sounds very poor.
The preschool room might be better but if the overall management is dreadful I’d still have concerns.

Sounds like an odd set up all round. At ours the full time staff work 4 days (10hrs) so there’s more consistency each day with staff. There’s no stopping and starting shifts part way through the childrens days and they have really low turnover (it’s not a chain nursery). It was important to us that they had secure attachment to the staff.

@Danikm151 there are 12 month waiting lists in our area so not possible to just find somewhere new.

@GoodChat that would be a dream if he could move up early. I suspect they will say no, the room is full till summer. But it could be worth an ask whilst complaining.

In response to other points about the point of complaining, a basic requirement ought to be that staff greet children when they arrive and that even agency staff ought to be told to do this?

Secondly I wonder if the overall manager (who is very nice) is actually aware of who the kind ones are and how shit her temporary room leader is? The staff rotas seem very random, and if I were the manager I would spread the good staff out across the week so that you didn't get any days where it was only agency people.

Move yr child to a childminder.

You need to complain and explain what’s going on, and say your son isn’t happy so they need to do a basic plan, drop off should be at the door where someone personally greets him and says bye to you and takes him in. It’s still worth putting your name on the waiting list for somewhere else now because if things are that bad there even with management, the nice lady in the next room up will be gone before you no it. Problems like this stem from the top so don’t leave your son their waiting for a nicer staff member.

There shouldn't be a single time where there aren't permanent staff members there, OP. If she agency staff don't even know the children's names, how do they know which ones got a nut allergy or is toilet training or whose parents have just separated?

How can you know they'll ask for the right password for parents collecting children on an evening?

It's scary.

Thanks @TeaKitten
How on earth do you know of a nursery is good / has kind staff? Obviously they'll paint a lovely picture if you look around. I don't know any parents other than those at the current place.

Interestingly, one mum walked past me today as my DS was hiding in the coats. She said, "my son was just the same until he moved to the preschool room and it's so much better there".

You're right. I suppose the crappy new room manager counts as permanent though. She's been brought in from the office.

Read their reviews, go in and talk to the staff and watch now they interact with the other kids and eachother… just like how you’d make an assessment of what people are like anywhere else in life. And it might be better in there now, but my point is if staff are leaving and they are struggling to replace, more stall will be leaving. This place aren’t taking good enough care of your child in your opinion so putting your name on a waiting list for somewhere else now would be a sensible suggestion.

I wouldn’t be happy with that either and I don’t see what complaining would achieve tbh, they’re not going to be able to magic up caring staff willing to do an often thankless job for shit pay. My priority would be moving him and I wouldn’t hold out for the preschool room when who knows if that one room leader you like will still be there plus presumably agency staff will still be involved with your son’s care.

I’d get on waitlists. There’s usually movement for preschool with the larger ratios and people moving for schools. Also, have you looked into school nurseries or term time only preschools? Some start at aged 2/2.5 and waiting lists are often a lot shorter. My DS will be starting in Sept and the staff are all unchanged from when his 6YO sister was there, unlike the day nurseries we’ve used where there are constant changes. If you need wrap around you can always see if you can combine with a childminder.

Ah yeah that's true @BrightonBeach83 - they'll say she knows all the children

Talk to the manager about your concerns and what you've seen from the new room leader. It doesn't have to be as formal as 'a complaint' but as a paying customer, you have a right to expect decent care.

We've had the same never ending churn of staff, it's relentless and hard for everyone, but it's being managed as well as possible, so in your shoes, I wouldn't be happy,

It sounds chaotic to me! As an ex Nursery Nurse Basic "Meet and greet" at the door is usually an expected thing! I would most certainly be asking to speak to the Manager.Fighting ,biting, and hitting, should be dealt with by removing both into "time out" and talking about not being nice to hurt our friends (Both DC) I would think about a move if possible ,The problem with waiting if DS unhappy is that he may get put off going .May be worth a ring round just in case a place has unexpectedly become avaliable .You say you Think your DS will be safe? This should not even enter your head .He ( and you) should know that he will be .Its a given in most Nurseries .Maybe see if CM might be better ,or have spaces .

Thank you. I really don't want a childminder set up but agree that enquiring about spaces elsewhere would be good, even if we lose money by placing him on a waiting list and then no space comes up in time. Assuming no spaces and he moves up to preschool room we can then see how that goes. Right now I just need to do what I can to advocate for my son and make the current arrangement work better. Yes I think pointing out this basic requirement of meet and greet could be helpful and I'm sure the manager would agree.

As they are a business I assume they wouldn't want us to leave so might actually take some steps to address a complaint?

Just be careful OP because if everywhere else has waiting lists your nursery will have one too, so make it clear you want to work with them

it sounds awful, but I think it is very common - I hope you manage to get your son moved up. I would definitely ask. The room miht technically be full, but I bet there are many days when one or more child is absent, and other children from the room below could below could be there

Yes I would complain - not all guns blazing but calm and considered, and aiming to work with them. But of course, go and look at other nurseries and see if you get a better vibe elsewhere. You might get lucky with a different pre-school place, if you want one.

It does sound like a chaotic room and not at all welcoming, I wouldn't be happy. Our nursery always take any concern very seriously, they're really good and try to avoid using agency staff if they possibly can.

“Our nursery always take any concern very seriously, they're really good and try to avoid using agency staff if they possibly can.”

i would assume all nurseries prefer this but not always possible

Thank you. Yes I will definitely approach constructively and want to be on good terms with them. The main manager is really nice. I just can't have my child crying asking not to go in everyday, especially when that's completely against his normal nature. Hoping they can put a plan in place as it's about supporting his needs.