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Original poster

Dd shouldn't go to work as a student midwife today??

138 replies

GracieGracieGracie · 01/05/2023 07:43

Positive covid test last week and still positive this morning. She's due to be doing visits today and really doesn't want to lose her hours, but she's going to be handling newborns so that's a no-go isn't it?

She can't get hold of anyone until 9am to check.

OP posts:
Fighterofthenightman1 · 01/05/2023 08:54

Throwncrumbs · 01/05/2023 07:53

If this was someone going on a flight everyone would say ‘you don’t have to test anymore so just go’ but apparently this is ‘no don’t go in’ ….babies go on flights too, vulnerable people go on flights as well. I’m just pointing out the double standards on here, which really pisses me off. Of course you don’t go into work/placement when you will be handling new born babies, don’t mingle with anyone else either, because where ever you go you will be near vulnerable people, new born or not!

Not really the same though

Random strangers on flights aren't going to be in very close contact with your baby, holding it etc

2023forme · 01/05/2023 08:56

bofski14 · 01/05/2023 08:42

I'm baffled that this is even a question. "Can my daughter who has a highly infectious and life threatening virus handle newborn babies and just not tell the mums?" Abhorrent. Fuck policies. Fuck what the trust says. Use decent morals. Stay away from vulnerable babies while infectious.

@bofski14 - it is not that straightforward and using a moral argument is not helpful - what if the infant’s mother had covid - would you isolate her from her baby? If every staff member who tested positive stayed off work until testing negative, health care provision would be so poor it would lead to harm/death. Who would look after the vulnerable elderly if most of the care home staff were isolating? Who would staff wards, operating theatres, A&E, drive the ambulances???

we must apply logic and evidence based care rather than morals. Having a virus/bacteria does not necessarily make an individual “infectious” - it is way more complicated - see quote below from the BMJ

It’s also unclear to what extent people with no symptoms transmit SARS-CoV-2. The only test for live virus is viral culture. PCR and lateral flow tests do not distinguish live virus. No test of infection or infectiousness is currently available for routine use.678 As things stand, a person who tests positive with any kind of test may or may not have an active infection with live virus, and may or may not be infectious.9

Asymptomatic transmission of covid-19

What we know, and what we don’t The UK’s £100bn “Operation Moonshot” to roll out mass testing for covid-19 to cities and universities around the country raises two key questions. How infectious are people who test positive but have no symptoms? And, w...

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851#ref-6

Daffodilmorning · 01/05/2023 08:57

Surely midwives shouldn’t be handling newborns with any respiratory virus? I wouldn’t have let her through my door if she had any outward symptoms.

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ChrisPPancake · 01/05/2023 08:59

Is she symptomatic?

ChrisPPancake · 01/05/2023 09:01

Sorry, just seen she is. We're ok to go back once the fever has gone in our trust. Wear a mask if coughing.

CottonSock · 01/05/2023 09:02

If it was my daughter I'd encourage her to stay off as she has symptoms. Probably needs rest for her benefit and I imagine she won't feel comfortable going to work with newborns, morally I mean.

FabFitFifties · 01/05/2023 09:02

Lots of NHS Trusts have had a recent turn around. We are expected to work if feeling well enough. Nurse.

Mummyme87 · 01/05/2023 09:04

I’m not confusing anything thank you @YearoftheRabbit23 you can test positive on LFT for long periods and it’s not rare to be positive on PCR for a long time it’s Infact very common. At my trust she would be told to go to work if well regardless of test result

fairgame84 · 01/05/2023 09:04

She's a student so supernumerary, therefore she doesn't have to be there as the patients will still get care without her. It's not good for heavily pregnant women to catch covid, she should stay home until asymptomatic.

LittleBearPad · 01/05/2023 09:05

If she’s coughing and doesn’t feel well I’d say that to her supervisor and stay off today.

GreatBigBeautifulTommorow · 01/05/2023 09:05

Gov guidelines changed at the end of March for NHS staff.
Treated like any other illness, we are no longer to test with symptoms.
if we feel well enough to work we have to go in unless working with immunocompromised patients.

introduced at our trust last week, can’t say I’m comfortable with it 🙁

VerityUnreasonble · 01/05/2023 09:05

The Government has withdrawn the provision of lateral flow tests for NHS staff over the last few weeks so I'm expecting staff will stop testing at all soon and then covid will be the same as anything else. If you are too ill to work you stay off. If you can drag yourself in you do.

Howmanysleepsnow · 01/05/2023 09:07

Government advice currently is to return on day 6, though it seems trust policy can and does deviate from this.
A cough can linger for weeks after she stops being infectious so isn’t indicative. Fatigue can do so too (long covid) but more likely it’s still an active infection (though post viral fatigue is a possibility too).
if she tested positive on Wednesday or later she should stay off. Personally I’d wait until the fatigue passed and it is day 6 as a minimum, or till day 10.
No point testing again as viral particles can persist for weeks after live virus ceases to be present.
Placement hours actually have a buffer of a hundred or so hours above the requirement built in so she may not need to make time up. Her uni should be able to let her know.

DisquietintheRanks · 01/05/2023 09:11

Onefellfromtheappletree · 01/05/2023 07:55

She needs to check trust policy. As abhorrent as it seems, I know our midwives are expected to go into labour and delivery ward if positive for Covid, as long as they feel well in themselves

This.

Willmafrockfit · 01/05/2023 09:13

hopefully she has managed to contact someone now anyway, as its after 9

OhwhyOY · 01/05/2023 09:15

Yeah I mean even with a cold you shouldn't be around newborns so I think she's making tje right decision by being cautious. Imagine how awful she'd feel if a newborn got COVID from her and died. It's irresponsible of her employer not to tell her to stay away if she's still symptomatic. Whilst they may be the ones that would be sued, it would obviously impact your daughter forever. With other patients it's a bit more of a judgement call but newborns with no functional immune system should be an obvious no!

Teateaandmoretea · 01/05/2023 09:17

YearoftheRabbit23 · 01/05/2023 08:40

@Perfectpeonies @Mummyme87 you are confusingPCR tests with lateral flow tests. If you are positive on a lateral flow, you are very likely still contagious. Which is why the 5 day rule is nonsense. You should isolate as long as you are positive.

Rarely, you can test positive on PCRs for a few weeks/months after infection because they are much more sensitive.

LFTs don’t differentiate between live and dead virus. Once you are feeling better you won’t be highly contagious, as per for any other illness.

I can’t believe people are still testing and focusing so much on one largely mild illness.

If you feel I’ll stay home, if you feel well go to work just like 2019.

Willmafrockfit · 01/05/2023 09:18

@Teateaandmoretea
i think its different where newborn babies are concerned. it should be different.

LittleBearPad · 01/05/2023 09:20

OhwhyOY · 01/05/2023 09:15

Yeah I mean even with a cold you shouldn't be around newborns so I think she's making tje right decision by being cautious. Imagine how awful she'd feel if a newborn got COVID from her and died. It's irresponsible of her employer not to tell her to stay away if she's still symptomatic. Whilst they may be the ones that would be sued, it would obviously impact your daughter forever. With other patients it's a bit more of a judgement call but newborns with no functional immune system should be an obvious no!

It’s vanishingly rare that newborns will die of covid.

MrBit · 01/05/2023 09:27

Rare but not impossible @LittleBearPad
Who'd knowingly take that chance

sevenbyseven · 01/05/2023 09:29

I suspect understaffing poses more of a risk on a labour ward than someone Covid positive who feels well enough to work.

Obviously if she doesn't feel well enough that's a different matter, and obviously she should follow Trust policy - once she's found out what that is!

CoffeeWithCheese · 01/05/2023 09:31

Needs to contact her uni placement staff as well as they will need to log it as a missed session in terms of her placement hours.

As for the mask petition - fuck off. My job is a million times harder to do while masked - so screw wearing them indiscriminately forever

sevenbyseven · 01/05/2023 09:32

Sorry just seen it's home visits rather than labour ward. My point still stands though that the relaxation of protocols is due to balancing the risk of infection Vs lack of staff.

3FriendsAndADog · 01/05/2023 09:39

Common sense says NO.
But I suspect that current guidelines are to go to work.
I also suspect that it’s true fir all HCP and know that many are working with immunocompromised patients whilst being positive…..

Are MW on strike with nurses too? This might also have an impact - no replacement possible at all.

Wife2b · 01/05/2023 09:40

I’d be furious if she handled my newborn knowingly with covid. It’s concerning that she can’t make a decision regarding this based on morals irrespective of what the rules are.