Where did the phrase Karen actually come from?

[Soubriquet]

I know it’s a hated phrase on here, but it’s also still used a lot on social media.

I know people think is misogynistic but it’s referenced to both male and female.

However, what I’m wondering, is why Karen? Why not Susan, Josh, Sally, or Adam?

How did it become Karen?

@JustAnotherPoster00 Not one poster on this thread has said that being called a Karen is worse than racism. You are being ridiculous.

The thread is about the origins of the insult so of course it is going to focus on that and on how the insult is being used today.

It might have began as a shorthand for middle aged white women who were either being racist or were behaving in a way which could be perceived as racist (I hadn't heard the full details of the lemonade stall incident before so thank you to the poster who explained it); that is not how it is used now.

Any middle aged woman who doesn't give a shit and says what she thinks is called a Karen to try and shut her up.

I thought it was Karen from Dance Moms.
The Karen haircut was her hair cut and she was rude, always complaining etc.
'stop being a Karen' was said in the show many times, directed at Karen's awful behaviour

I recommend this article by the wonderful Hadley Freeman for some thoughts on this

www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/apr/13/the-karen-meme-is-everywhere-and-it-has-become-mired-in-sexism

I agree.

My then 12 year old DS used the term once and I gave him a thorough lecture about the misogyny of it and I have since overheard him telling his friend off for calling his own mother a karen so I consider that a victory.

I haven't seen it on here for a while but the name Wendy was used to describe bullies. Being Wendied etc. Is that just a Mumsnet thing?

When i was a child, we had a NDN called Karen who was a complete Karen (would be around sixty now, I expect). We were often left speechless by her behaviour and could not find the right word for her. Since we were addressing her as Karen all along (and I never encountered a single, other Karen personally ever since) she will always be the original Karen for me 😅

Are you posting from the States?

What's the relevance?

I always wonder why Karen is such an insult and so terribly misogynistic , but "bye Felicia" isn't/wasn't? 🤔
It's good that a certain type of person gets called out these days though, but not great that some who don't understand it use it as a term for anybody who dares to make even a valid complaint.

It's not that white women were calling the police on black people for doing petty illegal things it's that white women were calling the police for black people existing in public. In the absence of police enforcement white people often take it upon themselves to the arbiter of law and order - they will often feel others especially black people do not belong in particular spaces without good reason. Sometimes even good reason isn't enough one such a white person called the police on a delivery driver clearly in his marked uniform and van. But on mumsnet apparently white women can never wield a specific form a racism against black people because something something and it's misogynistic because something something else. Tedious but then you have to know your audience.

Yeah it started in the US to mean a particular sort of white woman who weaponises the police because she is racist towards black people. However, in the UK it's now just a generic insult for any white woman who is over 40 and getting bolshy about something ( eg asking to speak to the manager)
The effect, I imagine, is that older white women now feel they can't complain about anything for fear of being uploaded on you tube and called Karen.
I don't think " Karen" is worse than racism but it doesn't really help with the whole misogyny thing. Both things can be bad.

Agree Chevy, not only misogynistic but with the overall result that a middle aged woman calling out poor customer service is seen - by young people - as a bad thing.

If anything i tend to put up with too much poor service.

Yes for me 'Wendy' was a MN thing. I first heard it here years ago when DS was a baby - 18 now (!)

The Karen meme is definitely on the way out. I see it less and less, nobody really has the 'Karen haircut' anymore as fashion has moved on.

Let's just let it die.

Do you remrmber Beyonce did a song about “Becky good hair”. This is a similar thing , not necessarily race relatedeg.Listen Sandra I get that you are a Scorpio that doesn’t excuse you treating people like shit.

• so the use of that name would imply a white woman of a certain age who follows horoscopes a little too much

It is stereotyping but very popular in memes. Another one is the FOR. Someone probably mentioned Karen in a popular meme and the name stuck.

I thought the name Karen was picked up due to Dave Cook’s comedy sketch back in 00’s about Karens.

https://digg.com/video/back-in-2007-dane-cook-predicted-the-rise-of-karen-in-this-comedy-bit

Wendy hasn't been used on here for ages. People called Wendy and posters in general thought it was unpleasant so now it isn't used.

MN is a UK website with majority UK users.

What you describe is awful racist behaviour, true. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that or defending such behaviour.

But why does the stereotype of a woman who would behave like that have to be linked to an extremely common name for women of a certain generation, of all races? How is that constructive at all? A different term could have been used. What would you think if you or say your mother was named Karen?

And like a pp just said, it is now being used to prevent older women from expressing an opinion on anything.

I always thought it came from the Karen character in Will and Grace.
White, over privileged, with a drink problem and an irritating squeaky voice.

Nothing ruffles feathers on MN as much as the term Karen

there are plenty of other ways to shut women up that have been used and are still used but a term that may also call out racism too

What would you think if you or say your mother was named Karen?

The first time I ever saw my mother cry was when a white woman called her a Black bitch when she was dropping me off to school - she said it caught her completely off guard in the moment. I would rather Karen be my first, middle and last name than have ever experienced that moment with my mother in the car.

I love how you're trying to excuse racism here. She did call the police on that little girl, she also got fired for being a racist moron. She called the police on an 8 year old for illegally selling water outside her own home.

As for this reddit claim - the Karen subreddit is full of mediocre memes no porn in sight.

I think the incidents posters are describing are racist incidents. So the people being described are racists. I don't think we need another word or name for them.
You're being a racist.
Vs
You're being a Karen.
There doesn't seem to be a general consensus on who/ why Karen was decided on as an insult. But it is just that, an insulting term.
Possibly as pp have said it's a difference between UK and US.
In the UK I have only heard the term Karen used to mock/ insult any woman over 40 who dares complain.
If someone is being a racist , why not just call them a racist??

The first pejorative use of Karen was after a Nintendo advert where a woman called Karen brought her switch along to a night out (how annoying are female gamers,eh?) Then there was the Reddit/ex wife meme Karen. Then there was a Saturday night live sketch, where a white Karen brought potato salad to a black barbecue. Then came the call the manager meme, which merged with Karen. Only after all this did the racist implications emerge.
i once did a big piece of research on this, where I searched for the term Karen in internet posts made during time periods, ie Jan to June 2018, Jun to Dec 2018, so I could see how the usage altered. I didn’t save it, though, so anyone wanting to check my version would have to go away and do the same thing I did!