Legalising assisted dying option, do you support it?

[ForTheSakeOfThePenguin]

Hi,

I just realised there is a group advocating for the option of assisted dying for the terminally ill in the UK.

I am not a member of the group but this is an option I would like to have if I ever come to the point of having an illness that has taken away my quality of life (and that of the people around me) with no hope for improvement.

I've just added my name to Dignity in Dying's public record of support for legalising assisted dying. If you agree, add your name - it only takes ten seconds: action.dignityindying.org.uk/page/107124/petition/1?utm_source=em_share

Thank you

Sorry but you can’t put your dads death as a good reason for assisted dying. While it may have been traumatic and painful for him and you, one bad experience is not enough to say all terminally ill people should be able to die as they wish, ie assisted dying. I’ve worked with patients who were terminal, and looked after my mum when she was dying, and everyone’s experience is different. Dying is part of life, it is sad, it is painful (adequate pain relief in some cases is mismanaged) but most people grasp at every minute when they get told they are dying. Sorry for your loss.

The pets statement is rubbish too, you can’t ask an animal what their wishes are so it’s irrelevant. You can ask a person, you can’t make the decision for them like you can a pet!

Yes, I support it.

It’s really isn’t and it’s very naive to suggest as such

"Substantial medical evidence that there is no possibility of improvement" - what does this mean, though?

Many people are told they have days, weeks, months to live and are still alive 5-10 years later.

It is not possible to give that evidence reliably.

We can live in hope, but we can choose not to as well because being forced to have hope against all the odds and your very own wishes as a very ill person seems… very very selfish of those willing to extend your suffering?

You make competency tests and you have it so the person is not competent, as judged by 2 clinicians. I don't care how happy I might appear, I do not want to live like that. Nor do I want to live in pain.

I have watched one side of my family end up mentally incapacitated and the other die slow painful cancer deaths. Both are awful and I do not want either. I would rather go a bit earlier than necessary than go into that territory.

My point is that when you are in the thick of it, and experiencing severe pain, and told that you don't have long left, you will take the option of assisted dying, because you are in that mental and physical space and you don't see the light at the end of the tunnel.

People have been through this and come out the other side, years later, alive and well. These people would have been killed if assisted dying were legal. They reflect and are glad that AD was not an option for them.

It is too complicated an issue to simply say "people shouldn't be made to endure suffering and should have the choice to die" - that is an over simplified argument. Our mental states fluctuate with illness and disease. You need to think about every angle.

As would most of us.

I'm sorry for your loss and I don't think anyone would disagree with you that that is not a good death, and it's horrible to live in pain. In an ideal world, no one would have to go through that.

But that doesn't make AD the right option for the UK healthcare system as it currently stands. It is simply not appropriate and would be too open to abuse and human error, hence why we don't already have it.

I believe in decent palliative care but unfortunately I think it's very much in the lap of the Gods as to whether it suits your situation.
I also believe in assisted dying with strong safeguards in place.
As for dementia?
Try to ensure that a POA for Health & Welfare is in place & that an advanced decision has been signed & GPs, care homes, etc are aware of this.
My mother's decision specified that in case of advanced dementia or a stroke, she was to be kept comfortable but no treatment which we were able to do.

Enduring, extending suffering... or choosing not to kill someone?

What happens if assisted dying comes to be?
Does it become a human right?

A human right to have someone else help to kill you?

And to repeat, if the same organisation who help you live are employed to help you die, budgetary concerns will be brought into play.

It is simply not appropriate and would be too open to abuse and human error, hence why we don't already have it.

Yep. It surprises me that anyone would think otherwise really.

What are these 'strict safeguards' and 'checks and balances' that people are so confident would prevent abuse?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/13/new-do-not-resuscitate-orders-imposed-on-covid-19-patients-with-learning-difficulties

I believe it does make it right. I have not seen one person die well. Not one. I have seen a lot of death. I believe firmly that it is better to give people their autonomy. It may be that they would change their mind or whatever. But if it is done in sound mind, people are capable of making that choice.

You are free to disagree, I am not trying to persuade you, but I am 100% clear in what I want, what I would choose and I will continue to campaign for that right. It is my life and my choice.

It is my life and my choice.

But in the UK, not your right.

We probably won't persuade each other and that is fine.

The cost of assisted dying is that some people will be murdered. That is just a fact. No matter how many controls and regulations you put on it, it will happen.

If you're comfortable with that as the price of a comfortable death for yourself and your loved ones, then that is your right, however personally I am glad that it's not an option in the UK.

No, no regulation could ever be careful enough. So open to all kinds of abuse.

*The cost of assisted dying is that some people will be murdered. That is just a fact. No matter how many controls and regulations you put on it, it will happen.

If you're comfortable with that as the price of a comfortable death for yourself and your loved ones, then that is your right, however personally I am glad that it's not an option in the UK*

This. If people are determined to get round controls and regulations because they can see a benefit to themselves, they'll find a way to do it. And personally, I wouldn't want to be treated by medical staff prepared to sign up to this.

It is not murder if someone agreed to it. Murder is a non consensual act. Maybe the time would be brought forward a bit, but if it has been consented to in sound mind, it is a person's free will. That is not murder.

I don't really get, when the UK government have fucked up on some really big decisions in recent years, and we can already see how it's going for Canada, why people would have any trust in this being safely delivered. Short memories.

Until i saw my mum on end of life care after her stroke, i'd have agreed with you, seeing a former independent woman become, very suddenly, someone who could absolutely nothing for herself was extremely upsetting, inc for my Mum who was well aware of her situation.

My experience is the opposite, family members wanting my mum to be kept alive in order to change her Will.... they failed.

Fortunately the Hospital and those caring for her could see what was going on and ignored their pleas and carried on with palliative care inc increasingly larger doses of Morphine.

I would support some form of assisted dying for those who have made their wishes clear before hand or where they are on a pathway.

Human greed, and human error, have implications, and no matter what system you bring in or how robust you think it is, some people will die without consent.

This is simply fact and it will happen. This is why we do not have AD already.

You cannot prevent it with any number of rules and regulations.

Yep.

Thats a good point but surely this would be a medical decision? Govt only responsible for the framework... but yes even as i write this, i think your correct :(

That is happening now, people not treated for chest infections, given larger doses of Morphine than strictly required.

My Mum was a nurse in the 50s, she said they had these cocktails, named after hospitals, heroin based for pain relief, they would basically be used to end life.