What is really going on in our schools? Well, Laura....

[noblegiraffe]

Laura Kuenssberg appears to have just discovered that schools exist. New to the concept she has written an essay discussing what might be going on in them, from the perspective of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about. Basic errors include "standards haven't crashed because GCSE and A-level results in 2022 were up on 2019".

She mentions the lack of funding, but doesn't mention the lack of teachers. She mentions increased pupil absence but doesn't mention the implosion of support services for children like CAMHS, or the huge waiting lists for SEN diagnosis and the cutting of TAs in schools due to lack of money. She suggests covid might have had an impact, but not that the government have done basically nothing to address this and that their covid catch-up adviser resigned in disgust.

She says a minister says that 'teachers have had a bashing since covid'. Since covid! She doesn't mention this is led by the government and has been going on for years.

So, what's really going on in our schools? Anyone want to help Laura out?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-65360168

Some of it's down to societal issues but the numbers of children with significant medical needs has exploded as well as increasing numbers of ASD issues which is a phyical issue not a sicial and emotional. I do think something physical is going on. Increasing number of surviving preterm babies, many many more babies born with interventions like ivf and older parents. I think all these are contributing.

Following this with interest.

For those that teach y13 and y11, how well prepared are this cohort for the exams that start very soon compared with the last cohort in 2019?

Are you expecting lower grades when the results come out?

I know a lot of people rave about the Finnish education system, although I'm not sure it is ranking as high as it did, one of the things I remember reading about it is that everyone has respect for teachers, not a blind respect, but a reasonable request to take off your coat would be met with compliance rather than a 10 minute discussion/argument. What a difference that could make in a our schools

When my DC (now 18 and 16) entered primary school (I work in the same school), they were not allowed to attend the nursery class unless they were 'toilet trained' (with additional needs excepted, of course).

Now, the staff in the nursery class spend more time changing nappies than they do teaching, because almost all the children now start without the ability to use the toilet and it's discrimination to expect parents to take responsibility for parenting 🙄

We know they'll get the same grade profile as the 2019 cohort, that's already been decided, which is why Laura's comment in her article that we know standards haven't crashed because exam results in 2022 were up on 2019 was such a poor argument - exam results in 2022 were up on 2019 because that was also pre-decided. Standards could well have crashed.

It will be really interesting to see where the grade boundaries are. They weren't that different to 2019 in 2022, but the kids were told in advance what was going to be on the papers which I think made a huge difference.

My Y11s I've mentioned before have absence issues that will definitely affect those students' individual results. I thought I was just unlucky with my class being affected by absence but the national figures show this is a general problem, particularly for disadvantaged kids.

So we know that grades will be protected, but absence means that more students, particularly from disadvantaged groups will underperform. How this will affect the grades of those students who have actually been turning up to school regularly is unclear, but I think they may well do better than expected.

I worry that we lose credibility as a profession in this debate (which we should own) when we fracture so easily into anti-SLT rhetoric, or blaming a niche parenting technique. The posts that describe the much wider and deeper systemic issues that are not solely education based are really helpful in explaining the extent and some causes of the problems. It would be very disappointing if the media were to pick up on individual points and disregard the real issues.

I work for a SEN advisory service having come from a school background. The demand for support for all areas of SEN from simple requests of what type of support school should be giving for a child who is behind to taking the LA to Tribunal to name a school has over doubled since last year and shows no sign of slowing.

I find it really hard going through plans with parents where the support is something as low key as an adult will check the child has understood the instructions or the child will have an adult to support them in class. The parents have waited years to get this plan and battle has only paused not finished. There are no adults available. The child is probably one of half a dozen in the class with a plan. Sure the ‘funds’ are there, in theory, but if no adult can be recruited then what happens? It ends up a series of complaints, breakdown of relations with the school, the LA, potentially the child then becomes a school refuser. A huge additional expense all for the want of staff. This is not an exaggeration, it’s a scenario I have seen time and again.

The level of support written into these plans can’t be delivered. Legally the buck rests with the LA and it’s a lot messier when the school is a MS academy. But if the staff can’t be recruited then it can’t be delivered. Or what does happen is a class TA takes the role and the rest of the class or even year group suffer. The child with a plan has a legal right to the plan to be delivered but the knock-on affect is massive.

One of the reasons I left education was the fact I was being expected to deliver increasing more specific SEN support with no training. Specialist staff didn’t have the bandwidth to come in, so we were delivering therapies, OT, SALT and mental health support off photocopied sheets.

Now I am supporting families through to Tribunal to get this same level of service. There aren’t enough special schools and parents have the right to MS so this will keep on going. Inclusion doesn’t always work as the default.

The solution isn’t just about more money.

blaming a niche parenting technique.

I don't think, from observing how children are increasingly reacting to being given an instruction, that discussions about behaviour as opposed to what would have been more popular historically, more authoritarian parenting are a 'niche' parenting technique.

And I think it feeds into the discussion about 'authoritarian' schools who expect the children to wear certain things and behave in certain ways. I am not defending the extreme examples of this, but they in themselves are a response to the failed attempts of schools to implement similar techniques to the Supernanny parenting ones (Paul Dix type restorative conversation methods).

Schools, and teachers, need to be able to give instructions to children and to have them followed and to be able to implement sanctions when they are not. There are increasing objections to this, see the endless threads on MN, and sad faces in the news.

The problems real people are finding in real classrooms ( that cause them to leave the profession) are as valid as any others.

I agree @parrotonmyshoulder
The issues run much deeper than funding, ‘poor parenting’ etc.
We need a rigorous debate on the whole subject of education in relation to the society we live in today. The expectations that some have on families today are irrelevant and outdated. Our world is a different place to how it was 50 years ago. Young people being raised in this world are different. The education system hasn’t moved with the times at all. It still expects the same of families as 50 years ago when families are under completely different pressures and circumstances.

I've DC in year groups that have been impacted by covid particularly.

Year 11: DD attends a specialist provision college-based course because she had a mental health crisis before lockdown (unrelated to school/covid) and was a school refuser. I pulled her from school a few months before lockdown and we muddled through until she was ready to return to education. She's doing exceptionally well now, but her peers have a similar background to her and are either highly motivated and engaged or completely passive and dont give a shit - this course hoovers up the kids who have been kicked out of mainstream school or who struggled in school settings for other reasons. They are closing the provision entirely after her year group finishes, and the amount of teachers she's seen in the past 2 years has been jaw-dropping. The ones who stuck around are heroes, from what I can gather. I guess with this provision ending the kids in future who could benefit will just skip from one school to the next or more likely end up with no GCSEs. Almost all of a year 11 high-school career will have been disrupted by covid, from mid year 8 onward.

Year 8: This year group is absolutely feral. We have teacher friends up and down the country, and the stories are all the same. They can't sit still, won't listen, won't do work, have no social skills. My DD is seen as an anomaly among her friends because I severely restrict her screen time and social media use, but encourage her to get out on her bike, go into town with friends, be independent out in the real world. It's the exact opposite with her peers, their parents keep them indoors, allow and encourage screen time, and refuse to facilitate real world interaction, scared to let them on the bus on their own, etc. Frankly it's unhealthy and bad parenting - and a direct result of lockdown life.

I do wonder if we've lost the real purpose of schools which is affecting parental and student perceptions. When older generations went to school, they did it to learn vital skills for life and work. Girls had home economics and students were literate and numerate and well prepared for the world of work in which they were entering. Then society progressed, more jobs opened up and more industries started competing at a national and even international level, school progressed with it, children were taught a more balanced curriculum with the mentality that if you did well at school, you'd earn more, get a nice house etc.

Technology has advanced so much since those days, the world has changed. Standards in work have changed. We are, for example, forcing young people to wear ties, despite these being less common in the workplace now, and unheard of for females. When textbooks still reference the use of USBs, and we know we are preparing them for jobs that don't exist yet, but still offering careers support aimed at gearing students towards specific careers that exist now. Is it any wonder, when schools are telling students "this is important", that they have less respect and understanding for us when things are genuinely important?

Just a little thought.

And the sheer number of emails from parents - sent at all hours of the day and night - that some of my colleagues receive, expecting , nay demanding, that they take responsibility for all manner of things that upper KS2 children should really be able to deal with themselves. A few recent examples:

1. didn't put on sunscreen
2. didn't take musical instrument home so no practice over Easter hols
3. loss of expensive unlabelled, natch coat, which has, of course, been 'stolen '
4. where child is to sit at lunchtime so as not to get upset by 'unusual smell' of other child's packed lunch
5. the book a child is, frankly, struggling to read is too easy and must be changed to a higher band

They're as well prepared - but I would say that they've needed more support to get there.
They're not as independent. They're less self-motivated.
The results will be on a par. That's a given.

Agree with you here.
Perhaps what it comes down to is that school is the problem not the other way round. (I’m not blaming teachers by the way for this. I am one. I totally understand the frustrations and pressures of teaching).
It’s all just so irrelevant and meaningless now. Which is sad because I’m actually a school fan. School could be a wonderful place. I’m a huge believer in the value of an education. And kids know it’s irrelevant and meaningless too.

Perhaps what it comes down to is that school is the problem not the other way round.

And yet over the lockdowns how often did we hear the refrain "children need to be in school"?

I left for many slow drip reasons but there was a final straw. I had a child in my year 2 class who I am certain was a psychopath. He had a TA assigned to him to stop him physically hurting other children and did most of his learning in a separate area to keep others safe.We desperately wanted him out of the school but there was no hope of that.She was working with him and turned away for a moment to acknowledge another person. He grabbed the skin of her bare ' bingo wings' in one hand and attempted to cut it with his scissors . He was a big child. She screamed and other people came running. He drew blood. He was completely dead behind the eyes. When he was asked why he said he just wanted to see her bleed. Children in our school left for a new junior school after year 2. We were told to say nothing and just get through until he left. He will be 30 something now and either a CEO or in prison.

This ultimately comes down to our role in society now. We are, basically, childcare. Or at least that's all parents see us as. Children didn't need to be in schools (well they did, but not for the reasons parents were complaining) but parents needed their kids to be out of their hair whilst they worked from home.

I think the childcare argument applies to primary, but not to secondary.

The amount of secondary parents who, during lockdown, were surprised to find that their children were not self-motivated learners who would diligently log in each morning and do the assigned tasks or follow the live lessons was quite surprising.

The posts on here about 'I cannot get him to do the work, so I have given up' (and the responses that this would be fine because school would catch him up(!) )

I think parents seriously underestimated how much time and energy is spent in schools in simply getting the kids to do the work. This is why we need routines, sanctions, a school culture etc etc.

The amount of time and energy that is needed to get the kids to do the work feels like it has shot up in recent years, and particularly since covid.

So kids need to be in school, because schools can get them to do the work.

That's even before you take into account the huge social aspect of schools.

I know. We did. Mostly by parents who were on their knees trying to facilitate distance learning for their DC and work a full time job at home. And deal with the fear of the pandemic too.
Again this comes back to economic issues of both parents having to work, of people struggling with money etc. As a society school has become more than an educational institution, it’s a place to send your kids whilst you work. The problem is the content of what is taught at school today being irrelevant and meaningless.

Just getting them to listen to one single instruction is utterly exhausting. "Turn to page 34" has to be repeated as many times as there are children in the class. Many/most also seem to think the instruction only applies to them if their name is at the beginning of the sentence. It is truly exhausting to get through a week of lessons for the adults in the room.

I do think ignoring that issue as a minor complaint rather than a systemic one is a mistake.

What we do know about the extremely authoritarian schools is that they advertise themselves to teachers as a place where you can actually get on with teaching, and you don't have to constantly manage behaviour. They are told that if they go elsewhere without similar policies, they will find it extremely difficult.

In a climate where schools are struggling to recruit and retain staff, a culture which makes it easier to do this is certainly something to be considered.

And a complaint that teachers cannot actually get on with the job of teaching is a major one.

I've been out of teaching a while now. I knew things were bad but this thread is an eye-opener.
There must be myriad reasons for the behaviour issues but the fact is the curriculum is almost completely irrelevant to today's children and they know it.
I know it as a teacher, my own kids know it, parents know it. School is just a hoop to jump through these days. So many kids have strengths and talents in areas not even taught in schools much anymore....often they want to be doing that instead. My kids and their friends also know they can use the internet to top up their knowledge (if they are so inclined) before exams come around.
The entire system needs scrapping and rebuilding from the ground up. Never going to happen so god knows what schools will look like in five years time.
Selfishly, I'm glad my children are almost done.

We have recently abandoned our "if they're not doing what you ask them to do, then seek assistance" policy because it's taking up too much time.
So if Bob tells me to fuck off, I can seek assistance.
But if Bob refuses to do his work, or move seats, I have to just put up with it.
It's obviously a shit idea.
We're also moving into the "restorative" nonsense. There are precisely no circumstances in which, having been told to fuck off by Bob, I will discuss with him our mutual feelings.

Agree totally. And like you feeling glad your DC have nearly finished, I’m glad my children are not in it at all.