Did you know that, as of last year, firearms are the leading cause of death for children in the United States

[Tuesdayvibes]

Nothing will done, though, will it?

I agree that Sandy Hook is when a lot of people realised that there is no hope of real change.

Sandy Hook was 2012 - 46 years after the Texas shooting. Or nearly 3 generations, to put it another way.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Americans are happy with this level of violence.

There's a list of the most deadliest mass shootings in the USA. So many happen in schools and colleges, places of worship, shopping malls.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States

Nearly all involved semi automatic weapons. The numbers are just astonishing and these are just the big mass shootings not the day to day stuff.

The only conclusion that can be drawn is that Americans are happy with this level of violence.

Well that's very simplistic. Most Americans do support gun control. But you can't get new laws past Congress and the courts, thanks to the NRA and all the states where people are much more pro-gun.

It used to be that individual states could have stricter gun control laws but the Supreme Court struck this down, now we're all screwed.

Well that's very simplistic. Most Americans do support gun control. But you can't get new laws past Congress and the courts, thanks to the NRA and all the states where people are much more pro-gun.

Well call me simple then. They managed to ban and unban alcohol with a change to the constitution, so I re-assert my point that Americans are happy with the way things are. There really is only one way to prove otherwise.

It's very easy to be fobbed off with thoughts and prayers when you are young and can be overwhelmed with the hogwash of vested interests. But when you get to a certain age, you start to apply Janes "if it mattered" test. And it's quite illuminating what it reveals. Used in combination with the "look at what they do and ignore what they say" and it's a powerful set of reductive tools that enable you to slice through bullshit like a knife through butter.

Americans don’t want strict gun control enough.

Not as much as they wanted alcohol banned, clearly.

Polls show between 50 and 65 percent of Americans DO want stronger gun control. This goes up to 75% in states like New York. Unfortunately, New York State cannot impose its own gun control laws anymore, thanks to the Supreme Court.

Not sure why you're banging on about Prohibition, which was 100 years ago when American politics worked very differently.

If you don't care enough to undertake some serious analysis of the issue, well fine, but it's pretty fucking rude to say that all of us Americans don't care about children and innocent people being slaughtered. One of those recent mass shootings took place where all my family live, do you really think we're all happy about it? Blame the NRA and the Republicans and the gun nuts, not all Americans.

But only Americans can fix this problem. That is going to take work but as far as anyone outside can see not that many Americans want to do the work and make this the single issue they vote on. I keep hearing that the majority or gun owners want gun control, parents want gun control but I have to admit that clearly the majority don't want it enough. Look at abortion; a minority wanted a complete ban and played the long game and made this their single issue and they have now got their wish DESPITE the majority. If the majority of Americans truly want gun control then it shouldn't take them long, but it will take sacrifice and yes, voting for people you don't like or a party you aren't a fan of.

Until then as far as I'm concerned I shall reserve my sympathies for the innocent children caught up in this and reserve my contempt for the adults who won't do anything about it.

You don't understand how things work in the US.
Abortion can be regulated on a state by state basis, gun control can't. People in blue states can vote Democrat all they want, they won't get their gun control. Whereas people in red states can vote Republican and get their abortion bans.

The Republicans played a lot of dirty tricks to get their right-wing Supreme Court, now we are stuck with it. Even if everyone in the country voted Democrat tomorrow, this Supreme Court would strike down any robust gun control laws.

So please, blame pro-gun Americans, not all Americans. It's not fair to blame everyone in a country for fucked up situations. I mean, the UK has more food banks than it has McDonalds. Can I say that British people are happy to see people starve? After all, if you didn't like it you would do something about it, right?

It's not down to the NRA, it's not down to the Republicans. A lot of Americans, of all politican persuasions, want to own guns, use them safely and legally, and don't see why they should suffer because of the actions of a few lunatics.

I don't think government mandated strict gun control and/or banning guns would work any more than banning drugs has done or banning alcohol did in the past. There's a massive demand for high powered firearms that the criminal sector would be happy to fill if the legal sector was unable to.

You have to put it down to being a different country, with a different culture, and leave them to it. I've got relatives in the US that own guns, they're good people but gun ownership just isn't something that it open to debate with them.

Jim jefferies nails it in his stand up routine on gun control.

I don't understand how people armed worth guns are getting access to schools?

In the last school shooting the killer shot his way through the doors iirr. Or do schools in the US now need bullet proof doors and windows?
I mean, they don't in other countries but for some reason the US isn't willing to protect its children by restricting guns so ...

So you play the long game, you out in judges, you alter laws you play exactly as dirty as the anti choice brigade. For a start you can lobby to remove the liability shield from gun manufacturers (something no other industry in the USA has) and allow civil suits to work in the meantime. You keep chip chip chipping away. Exactly like anti choices. And don't tell me that it's a state issue when one Texas judge has banned medication for the entire country. It seems that your supreme court picks and chooses when something is a state issue and when it's not. Get in another court, expand it, impeach Clarence Thomas and replace him etc are all things you can do if the majority want to. Stop waiting for someone to rescue you, pull yourself up and get on with it. Also I am not in the UK.

Also in the UK very few if any homicides with a firearm are with legally held firearms. When they are they are usually men killing their wives.

It’s at the stage now where I morbidly wonder if Republicans have such an issue with abortion as it means a reduction of things to shoot.

In Jan , I was on holiday, sat next to an American woman on a train . We spoke about places we’d been . She told me her daughter had had a year in Italy as a part of her uni course. I asked what had been the hi light for her ? She said , going to college and knowing you won’t get shot .

the UK has more food banks than it has McDonalds. Can I say that British people are happy to see people starve? After all, if you didn't like it you would do something about it, right?

Exactly right. And like some Americans, some Brits will get upset and say it's not fair.

But if you want to play the democracy card (and boy, do both countries like to plat the democracy card) then you have to accept this is what democracy - the rule of the people - brings. And we are all people.

Mind you, a more appropriate analogy would be the UKs love of dogs and willingness to allow them to continue to kill and mail innocent people without any sign of political intervention.

Yes I did. It's obscene how the NRA controls things there.

And ironic that one reason they say they need their guns is so that they can 'take back control' if a 'corrupt government' gets their claws in. Which of course, happened a few years ago and demonstrated to the world exactly who the people with guns side with when there actually is a corrupt government.

If making it illegal to shoot people doesn't work, why would making it illegal to own a gun work?

Because people do stupid things in the heat of the moment. We know that, for example, putting painkillers in blister packs prevents suicide. Because it's easier to neck a bottle of 50 pills without thinking than pop 50 pills out of a pack then neck them. A lot of work on suicide is done to try to delay it, because if you delay it, it often doesn't happen.

Same with violence. If I am a man who is jealous about my wife's new relationship after a split, and I wish her and her BF ill, if I can just pick up a gun and go round, I might. If I have to consider how to subdue and hurt two people without a gun, I'm going to think twice.

Making things more difficult to do DOES prevent them. People will do things that are EAST (easy, attractive, social and timely). Make guns less available, less cool, less acceptable and you will have less gun crime.

Unfortunately violence in the US is also easy, attractive, social and timely. Military police forces, media all about violence, starting wars all over the shop. It's about as far from a cohesive, homogenous, socially equal and happy society as it's possible to be. And that needs to be changed too.

The country seems to be on an exponential curve upwards in terms of gun ownership.

The more mass shootings that take place, the more people decide they need a gun, and so then the more mass shooting take place……and on…..and on

The Christian all-girls camp I worked at in Texas with Camp America had riflery as one of its activities.

Not surprised! What with school shootings and all.

I mean, the UK has more food banks than it has McDonalds. Can I say that British people are happy to see people starve? After all, if you didn't like it you would do something about it, right?

We did do something about it. We opened food banks, so people don’t starve.

Oh definitely not a man thing. It's s culture that also heavily involves both women and children fighting for their right to bear arms.

Nothing wrong with a bit of target shooting. done archery, pistol and rifle shooting myself in times gone past.

And I am a libertarian who really dislikes the big hooter of government in my business.

But guns are just too damned dangerous to leave unregulated. And I'd rather a complete ban on all firearms at the expense of a bit of hobby shooting, than the risk of someone taking out 10,20,30 people.

Personally I think the UKs gun laws are far too lax. In that I still can't think of a reason why anyone needs to own a gun and keep it in their home. Although with reference to the social contract we are supposed to have with the state, if that fails, then people will keep guns at home. Legal or not.