Divorce entitlement

[cantgetabus]

I also have this posted In The divorce topic.

Hi all, newly separated after 30 years of emotional abuse. I'm in shreds but can see it all so clearly now.
I had to give up work 7 years ago due to breakdown caused primarily by the abuse. I've only done babysitting and cleaning since for part time hours.

Can you please give me an idea of what my financial rights would be divorcing. He earns over £100,000.

Would I be likely to be paid a monthly amount from him? I have no clue and I'm not in a very good place.

Thank you for all the replies

It still doesn't seem moral that I'll earn a low wage whilst I've facilitated him building a career.

He's also facilitated you not working / not having to worry about being the main earner

Spousal maintenance is pretty unusual and is usually only for a fixed period of time. You'll be expected work - work full time and maximise your income

" It still doesn't seem moral that I'll earn a low wage whilst I've facilitated him building a career."

Can you explain a bit more about this? How exactly did you facilitate him to build his six figure career?

You do realise "his" pension and the house equity and any savings either of you have are half yours? I'm going to guess you have no idea what his pension is currently worth, and that he may have hidden some financial information like savings from you as well. Best advice often given on here is to focus on finding out about all of that stuff before making your move.

Watching with interest.

Although my ex would still have reached the heady highs of his career, we decided together we'd rather I stopped work to be a SAHP to ease school pick ups, have a family pet, him having an overseas job etc, I'm now in a job that pays c£40k less than i might otherwise have been.

I'll be seriously pissed off if that's not recognised in the financial settlement. I'll never be on the huge salary he's been able to access.

Sure I'll get 50% of the pension pot but i have 10 years of working life at a fraction of his salary. How is that fair?

This

But you will also have benefitted from his high earnings over the years - being able to be a SAHM, holidays, nice home, car, savings etc? And you will still benefit by being entitled to at least 50% equity in the house, half of any savings and a fair whack of his pension.

But @Soontobe60 the OP and others like her (me!) can counter that argument with the one where her ex has benefited from having a SAHP at home all this time to make day to day things easier. Never having to do school runs or parents' evenings or meal planning/cooking/laundry/cleaning.

Exactly. I am also watching this with interest.

I had to be a stay at home mum for 12 years in order to facilitate his ‘career’.

Once the kids were old enough, I have worked myself into the ground to achieve my own career.

I did this alongside parenting as though I was a single parent. His life didn’t change.

I now earn more than him and the kids are both 18.

It’s going to be 50/50 split isn’t it?? 😢

After I gave up my life to raise the kids and he carried on as though he didn’t have any for the whole 25 years.

Because you decided together. He didn't force you to make that choice, it might not have been sensible to make any other choice but childcare exists and you could have continued to work.

Re – Divorce and Financial Settlement
To know what a fair split of assets is and to reach a financial settlement divorcing parties need to know what the assets of the marriage are, and what each asset is worth.

Full and frank disclosure is a legal requirement.

What does full and frank disclosure look like?
Look at a Form E. A long document in which each party sets out their assets, income, and financial needs. You can see in it the assets that are taken into consideration upon divorce and financial settlement, for example property (the former marital home), pensions, savings, stocks and shares etc. It also lists the documents needed that show the value of assets for example CETVs (cash equivalent transfer values of pensions - which can be requested from pension providers). Form Es are exchanged – both parties fill them out, attach the required documentary evidence and send them to each other. Form D81 can also be used.

What are the assets worth?
To find out what some assets are worth an independent expert can be used. Property can be valued by an expert - estate agents/surveyor, pensions by CETV and / or by a pension on divorce expert/actuary (PODE) report, and so on. It is important to decide what needs a valuation by an independent expert and factor in the costs of these.

Pensions can be very valuable – equivalent or more than the value of the former martial home in some cases. Divorcing parties might hold different types of pensions (not like-for-like, so difficult to compare without an expert). Circumstances might be complex for example an age difference or pensions in payment. One party may have stayed at home to look after children.

An actuary can do an in-depth report on pension sharing - what capital and income would be if split 50/50 or a percentage of choice. They can be instructed to factor in retirement ages of the parties. Joint instructions are given to the actuary and they walk parties through the process.

Who gets what?
When deciding how to distribute a couple’s assets and income the court must apply a checklist of factors set by statute. The relevant statute is section 25 of the Matrimonial Causes Act 1973. These factors will need to be applied in every case, regardless of whether you are engaged in court proceedings or negotiating your own settlement. These are often called the Section 25 factors, which the court will consider when deciding how to distribute assets upon divorce or dissolution.

Section 25 Factors
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1973/18/section/25

https://images.ctfassets.net/o8luwa28k6k2/2cpp2mEMwBJWJLuzTiTruB/b5397e7459154fad8927826a2c99acdd/section-25-expert-guide.pdf

The income, earning capacity, property, and other financial resource which each of the parties to the marriage has or is likely to have in the foreseeable future is considered.

First consideration is given to the welfare (while a minor) of any child of the family who has not yet attained the age of eighteen.

The needs of each divorcing party are considered and as I understand it 50 / 50 is the starting point – so unequal shares based on circumstances and needs is possible, for example 60 / 40.

Not getting full and frank disclosure?
It is vital to get all the assets “on the table” so that informed financial decision can be made and a fair/just settlement negotiated.

Full and frank financial disclosure is required and usually provided when Form E is exchanged.
If after Form E there is missing information / documentary evidence ‘Questionnaires’ may be exchanged to retrieve it – a list of questions and a list of any missing documentary evidence required which is served on each party.
If still missing after that, ‘Deficiencies’ are exchanged – questions can be asked to clarify and al list of required documentary evidence still missing.
A solicitor’s letter can be sent to retrieve financial information / documentary evidence.
A Court Order can also be applied for to gain financial information / documentary evidence / valuations that are missing / essential.

Advice and info
These offer a free advice session about pensions on divorce and separation https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-or-dissolution-how-we-can-help-with-your-pension
Free advice line (busy so keep trying) https://rightsofwomen.org.uk

Guides on divorce and financial settlement
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/divorce-and-separation
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-apply-financial-order-without-help-lawyer

Pensions on divorce
https://www.sharingpensions.co.uk/penaudit3.htm
https://www.mediateuk.co.uk/the-ultimate-guide-to-pensions-on-divorce/
https://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/news/new-good-practice-guide-addresses-shortfall-in-understanding-of-how-to-treat-pensions-on-divorce

Valuation of pensions – pensions on divorce expert report (actuary)
https://www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk no relation – useful website
https://www.collinspensionactuaries.co.uk/pension-data-collection/ templates for information required

Mediation
Mediation can be used to reach agreements.
Some cases are not suitable for mediation e.g., domestic abuse/bullying/coercive control.

https://www.gov.uk/money-property-when-relationship-ends/mediation
https://resolution.org.uk/looking-for-help/splitting-up/your-process-options-for-divorce-and-dissolution/family-mediation/

The First Meeting with a Mediator – The MIAM
www.familymediationcouncil.org.uk/family-mediation/assessment-meeting-miam/
“The mediator will tell you whether your case is suitable for mediation, and you can decide whether you want to proceed with mediation or explore another option for resolving issues. The mediator can also give you information about other services which provide help and support.”

Legal advice
This link gives you an indication of hourly rate for solicitors
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/solicitors-guideline-hourly-rates

Some organisations offer free advice from solicitors and barristers https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/On their FAQs page…”Our Legal Officers and Volunteer legal advisors are all solicitors and barristers”.

Some family solicitors offer an in initial free consultation and some a fixed fee rather than hourly.
Some barristers can be directly instructed e.g., via Clerksroom Direct

Mumsnet suggest https://www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

Domestic Abuse
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/domestic-abuse-how-to-get-help
In danger?
Call 999. Teach any children how to do this.
How to call the police when you can’t speak
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Documents/research-learning/Silent_solution_guide.pdf
Leaving the relationship safely
www.womensaid.org.uk/information-support/the-survivors-handbook/i-want-to-leave-my-relationship-safely/
Legal Aid
https://www.gov.uk/legal-aid/domestic-abuse-or-violence

Look after the old(er) woman you will become, financially :)

https://www.advicenow.org.uk/tags/separation-divorce-and-dissolution-civil-partnerships

@Lizzt2007 I'll reply to that suggestion that because childcare existed we could have worked. When you are 1/2 of a couple where one earned enough (or more than enough in my case ) to support all of you - and this was possible in the 1990s early 2000s - then it was common for 1/2 to have a career break, especially if the higher earners was in a job with some inflexibility, such as working pattern or frequent overseas trips. Plus not everyone wants their children in full time nursery. In my case i switched to part time. That break has definitely affected my earnings. Definitely.

I can prove that by comparing current salary v salary of positions one or two steps ahead of me.

I'm not saying he would not have been on his mega salary without me, he would have been, but it's the stunting of my own career potential that I want recognised.

The starting point for a divorce is 50/50, especially as your dd is an adult now.

All assets go into the pot, any properties, pensions, savings but also any debts. It doesn't matter who's name is on the paperwork either, they all count.

It's unlikely you'll get any monthly maintenance from him. It's not often awarded unless you decide to do this rather than taking a slice of the assets. Speak to a solicitor and find out what to expect

I'm not saying it's right that is
It's not taken into account, but saying the reasons why it isn't. Lots of people don't want their children in full time nursery, but that's a choice they have to make.

This is why Mumsnet harps on about women not stepping back from the workforce. You just never know if the marriage will last. I'd really like to see women more focused on their own future welfare 😞

Amen @silentpool .

If my husband says to me how about you take yourself off your career ladder for a decade and you concentrate on the kids/homemaking/helping me in my career then I see a flag waving. Of course kids are important, almost important, I have 5, 3 of whom have autism and additional needs. I took 4 years out. That was it. It took me a decade to recoup the loss and now I outearn my DH. I've been lucky, but women need to start prioritising their financial health as it is important as anything else.

Most not almost

Bare bones of a divorce are 50:50

https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation/divorce-and-money-calculator

This might help

This is interesting ...
I've been married 22 years.
18 of them as a SAHP because we have 2 young people both high needs ASD.
I am a Carer, & they get DLA. I have no chance of work as 1 or the other of them can need help anytime between 6am-2am. I am also disabled too.
exH (30K p/a) does NO contact with them & pays no maintenance.
My lawyer (legal aid junior) says: 50%.
Not sure why it's not higher in my circs, if that is a 'starting point' ?

Because sometimes 50:50 is the reasonable and fair thing to do and doesn't need to be dug into any deeper. Different asset splits happen for a variety of reasons - generally wealth, children, debt, property. It's why it's always advisable to seek legal advice.