Civil Service - is it ever possible to get feedback on a job application?

[wudpidgen]

I applied for a Grade 7 Civil Service position. My skills and experience exactly matched the requirements for the role, and I wrote the personal statement carefully to make this clear. I expected to get an interview but I didn't. My best guess explanation is that my current salary is already towards the top of their scale, but this reflects my age (I'm 51) and experience. I would like some personalised feedback, but they say they don't provide it, and there is no direct email address. Has anyone managed to get personalised feedback from the CS? How can I be sure I haven't been discriminated against because of my age? 😕

Salary expectations aren’t relevant - you either pass the sift or you don’t. Did you get a score at all?

It sounds like you’re applying from outside. The biggest mistake people tend to make is talking broadly about all their experience and not giving specific examples - it’s better to give one detailed example, which feels counterintuitive if you’re used to non-CS job apps.

Also what did the advert say was being assessed in the application eg did it mention experience, behaviours? That would be helpful to know.

Also, your age categorically wouldn’t be an issue!

It’s much more likely you’ve misunderstood how to write your application.

Salary and age won't have factored at all.

Did you write your behaviour examples to the G7 descriptors?

How would they know your current salary? I sift/interview in the civil service and never see anything about salary expectations.
We don't typically give personalised feedback beyond just the scores for people who haven't got to interview. For roles in finance so not open to everyone, I usually receive between 30-40 applications. I do not have time to give personalised feedback. Hiring managers are doing this alongside their day job while also covering for a vacancy.

It's blind recruitment in civil service isn't it? So they wouldn't know your age.

What scores did you have?

Do you know anyone working in the civil service who could have a look at your application and give you some feedback? I feel like there's a 'knack' to Cs applications like someone said upthread.

Some roles and departments are very competitive, it's a shame you didn't get to interview but sifters wouldn't have seen your age or salary expectations unless you wrote them in the personal statement which suggests you didn't read the guidance. If you really want a job in the CS familiarise yourself with success profiles etc and make sure you read all of the JD and guidance carefully; there's a very uniformed way things are scored which is both good and bad but regardless you need to know. Did you get scores?

There's no option to start anywhere other than the bottom of the pay scale and plenty of people join on a pay cut so that's not the issue.

I'm wondering though if you have listed your salary on the CV whether you're also not quite hitting the right style for a CS application. It's really not the done thing. Have you had some honest feedback from an experienced civil servant outside of the application process?

Feedback only comes with an interview unfortunately, the volumes are just too high, but you'll have a mark out of 7 if you find the right part of the online portal

Did you write your behaviour examples to the G7 descriptors?

Yes, I did. I followed the instructionsvery carefully.

The biggest mistake people tend to make is talking broadly about all their experience and not giving specific examples

I gave specific examples.

*Did you get a score at all?"

There was no score, no. The application needed a CV and a personal statement.

There was also an application form which asked for my current salary.

It's blind recruitment in civil service isn't it? So they wouldn't know your age.

They asked for my CV, which has my higher education dates in, so unfortunately it's not hard to work out my age.

I'm wondering though if you have listed your salary on the CV whether you're also not quite hitting the right style for a CS application. It's really not the done thing.

They asked for my current salary on the application form. The "style" of my application was in line with what they asked for.

Thanks for all the responses but there's a bit of "gas lighting" going on. Obviously I don't expect people to know why my application was rejected, because you haven't seen it, but please do believe me when I say I sent them everything they asked for, and it met all the criteria for getting an interview.

I’ve just sifted and interviewed for a post in my team, in the CS in Scotland. I seriously doubt that anyone has time to sit and work out your age. They’re only interested in reading the parts of your application that they have to score. This may vary in England, but in Scotland it is just the essential criteria evidence we read. We don’t even look at the rest of the application. You may consider your examples specific, but clearly the recruitment panel did not. Sounds like you are external to the CS so personal feedback likely isn’t possible due to the number of applications. You will just have to keep trying if it is what you want. If you can get feedback from a current civil servant that would help a lot.

Which CS department was it?

I work in CS recruitment and we ask for dates from the CVs to be removed.

Look back at the original advert, does it say there was a longlisting criteria? It may be you were only assessed on your CV, and not your personal statement.

The guidance for civil service CVs says which information to omit- one is anything relating to age of which dates by jobs and educational attainment will be. You need to thoroughly read the guidance.

and it met all the criteria for getting an interview.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, your application will have been scored and sifted appropriately dependent on the pass mark and other candidates. There isn't a criteria for getting an interview as such, unless you mean the disability confident interview policy?

No one is gaslighting, it is a process that can seem bizarre and confusing if not used to it.

Look up Richard McMahon on YouTube. He does some fab free videos which will talk you through how to answer each question.

They spend 2 years trying to fill a role and then make it almost impossible for someone to get the job, no wonder they are understaffed.

I'm a G6 CS and i've actually just finished a G7 recruitment campaign so have this very recently in mind.

Although the app form might ask you for info about age, when it is sent to the hiring manager, this information is redacted so we cannot see it. We only see it after it has been confirmed who is coming for interview. Noone i have met in 10years in the CS has ever bothered to sit and work out ages from exam dates (we ask for these not to be included anyway, and expect them to be removed from your CV for precisely this issue). In my dept we wouldn't ask for current salary as you would always join on the bottom of the band but i recognise perhaps other Depts do. I doubt this would affect putting you through for interview though - it would just be a discussion about expectations if you were to be successful.

It's quite rare to see a CS job advert without an email address at the bottom of the job ad - i can't remember the last time i saw one. Did you apply directly through the CS Jobs website or was it through LinkedIn / recruitment agency? Did you keep a copy of the info from the CS jobs page? It's usually right after all the t&cs with all the nationality and security information etc. It might be something generic like recruitment@XXdept or HR@XXdept. If you cannot find anything, there is always a general email address on the Dept website - you could email them and ask for your message to be sent to the recruitment / HR team.

When we receive an application we score how the application has met each of the essential criteria. If we have many applications with the same score, but we only have 1 post, then we wouldn't interview more than 5 or 6 candidates. So we then assess on the desirable criteria as a further sift. If you get through to interview, we score each behaviour and you do get written feedback on how the score was reached.

You say you met all the criteria, but does that include the desirable criteria as well as essential? Perhaps there were many candidates who all met exactly the criteria.

If you genuinely have concerns about the process, then absolutely use the generic email address to contact the Dept and make enquiries. Depts will have a complaints process under which concerns about the recruitment process can be raised. But in my experience, we receive a lot of applications from external candidates that just don't compare as well to internal applications.

There are lots of CS giving you helpful and accurate advice on this thread so perhaps accusing people of gaslighting isn't necessarily the way to go?

I was a civil servant in a very specialist role 20 years ago, and when I left I joked with friends I'd never get back in again, or even get my own job, as already the application criteria were utterly bonkers in terms of how you had to phrase things.

Well, lo and behold, recently a specialist job came up that my experience would have been a great match for. I didn't even get shortlisted (it was via an agency). I was very miffed at first but then came to the conclusion that the CS is now probably much too pedantic and tick boxy to be a good match for me - and evidently, no, I wouldn't get my old job back!

It'll either be that they have been utterly inundated with applications or something like what others have suggested, not following the CS instructions to the letter and then some. I'm personally not going to try again, there are plenty of other employers who don't expect quite so many hoops.

It's because they have to be accountable to the tax payer unlike jobs in the private sector. Sure the process isn't necessarily straight forward but there are tonnes of resources online, generally it means that the process is least subjective ergo fairer.

I think it's completely unrealistic to ask for feedback unless you've been interviewed, can you imagine the workload if this was normal practice?
CS applications are a massive PITA and hugely time consuming, and you're understandably frustrated to not be interviewed, but to claim anyone is gaslighting you is just bonkers.

You say you met all the criteria, but does that include the desirable criteria as well as essential?

Yes, it does.

The role had a market supplement attached to it, because it requires a specialism that is currently in short supply. It was advertised externally, but perhaps the market supplement attracted lots of internal applicants from other departments too - I didn't think of that.

I realise they get a lot of applications, and can't feed back to everyone, but if all the criteria are met by large number of applicants and they have to sift based on unlisted criteria it inevitably raises questions.

It isn't unlisted criteria if it is listed as desirable criteria? It is a legitimate second criteria.

I suggest you just email the dept and ask. All they can do is say no. If the positions are in such short supply then I'm sure there'll be another advert along soon enough for you to have another go if you want to.

It's really disappointing to not get a position, but you've had some really good advice here and dismissed it as gaslighting 🙄

It's not necessarily a reflection on your skills or abilities if you didn't succeed, if you're applying from outside you're almost certainly just not presenting them in the right way to get the pass mark for the sift so please find some civil servants who will give you feedback

It won't be unlisted criteria, that's the point. The behaviours and technical skills they are marking against will be listed in the advert.

Just lifted this from a random job advert:

Behaviours

We'll assess you against these behaviours during the selection process:

• Changing and Improving
• Delivering at Pace
• Communicating and Influencing
• Leadership
• Working Together

We only ask for evidence of these behaviours on your application form:

• Changing and Improving
• Delivering at Pace

There's then a link to this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/success-profiles

And then more info on the CV and statement:

As part of the application process you will be asked to complete a CV, Suitability Statement (Max 500 Word Limit) and a number of behaviour examples. Further details around what this will entail are listed on the application form.

The Statement of Suitability should explain your motivation for applying to this role and offer evidence how you meet the essential criteria listed on the Job Specification.

The sift will be based on the Behaviours and the Suitability Statement.

The CV is for information purposes only and will not be marked.

In the event a high volume of applications are received, an initial sift will be based on the Lead Behaviour - Changing and Improving. Candidates who pass the initial sift will be progressed to a full sift.

Candidates shortlisted will be invited to an interview which will be Behaviour based questions

From this you know which behaviours are being scored in your statement (Changing & Improving and Delivering at Pace) with C&I being the most important as if they need to cut down the shortlist to a reasonable number they'll go from that score. There's also a link to read about the behaviours given, and on the actual form it says what info to not include to ensure it meets the blind recruitment principles. Can also see that the CV isn't marked, and what to include in the statement.

The info on how it will be marked and what will be considered in the sift is very clear. Admittedly how to formulate the statement etc can be confusing but plenty of other resources and videos online that explain this.

Best thing when applying is to print the job description, make a note of the behaviours being marked on the application (and print the framework if not familiar with them) and make sure your answer relates to the behaviour but also to the JD.

You don't get feedback unless you getvan interview, you should just get scores against the criteria, you need certain scores to pass the sift and get an interview

Sorry should say behaviours being scored and statement above.

You mis-read my post. I said that I met all the listed essential and desirable criteria.