Ds coming out with all sorts, embarrassing me

[ashamedadmitting]

Ds8 has an asd diagnosis. It's been pretty evident since nursery who put him on the pathway to a diagnosis. He is a lovely but eccentric boy, has a good heart but some of the things he comes out with 😫 I could die !
Whenever we go to the shop I find myself dreading what he's going to say, it's always embarrassing, he will go on about Putin and call him a moron (which I don't disagree with) but he's goes ott about it all. He said Ukraine surrender earlier 🤔
He will bend over outside the shop and say he's marking his territory !! He asked if he could have my milk manually at the counter I mean wtf I was mortified !! He told the girl at school who fancies him that her face makes him want to puke !! He can be very morbid sometimes aswell and will talk about death or deeply question things. He will also say the word crap all the time in front of people (even his teachers) even though I've told him to stop a million times. He told the hesdteacher he knows how to hack people (he doesn't) and I was questioned about this !
I wonder if sometimes he says these things for a reaction?

Everyone laughs but I do worry what people must think, and I know I shouldn't and that makes me ashamed of myself.

I guess I'm just wondering if this is just the asd or him as a person ? Or could it be adhd too? I've always suspected he has adhd too, he is so impulsive, cannot wait his turn, won't sit still unless on the ipad, can't sit still while eating his dinner, comes out with all this random inappropriate stuff, it's like he actually needs gagging sometimes as he just cannot stop interrupting people !

I really worry about him going to secondary school

https://siobhantimmins.uk/about-siobhan/
useful website

Sounds typical of a child with ASD, I’ve worked at a SEN school.

I am autistic and ADHD.

The thing allistic people often miss about autistics misreading of social expectations, reactions and cues is that we don't have the "why" in our minds. Allistics can instinctively read a room and work out what's ok to say and what's not - autistics struggle with this, and some can't do it at all. What we need is a thorough explanation of why social rules are what they are, what happens when we "break" a social rule, why, and so on. It's then up to the person how they choose to act (and of course, it takes time to modify behaviour, especially for a child).

It's also ok to react honestly! If he's being gross (bending over and saying he's marking his territory), it's ok to be like, omg that's disgusting, ew. Obviously not in a nasty or bullying way, but in the same way you would any other person acting like that. It will help him learn what reactions he'll get from the things he chooses to do, and that will inform his choices. Responding super calmly and acceptingly to everything can seem like the right way forward, and it often is, but sometimes if we're acting inappropriately it's more helpful to just experience an honest reaction from someone!

It's so complex in some ways, I empathise a lot. Happy to chat about this from my perspective as an autistic person if you want to ask anything.

I do pull him up on things, I explain why he shouldn't have said that and how it could offend people or hurt their feelings. The amount of rules I make for him I actually get lost myself !! I think he does understand but can't help himself. It's almost like he's showing off?

We was out in a restaurant the once, he was about 4-5, and he told our waitress how the man on the next table had a big neck (he meant a couple chin) if that wasn't embarrassing enough he then proceeded to tell the waitress oh you've got a big neck aswell 😳😳😳

He is high functioning, and would be diagnosed what used to be Asperger's. He is aware of what he's saying but it's like he can't help himself

Ds is 17 now and comes out with awful stuff.
In certain moods he can’t control it, but he’s got better at taking himself out of situation that cause stress - eg. he will go and wait outside rather than wait in a queue with me.

It’s also much easier to handle as we’re so used to it it doesn’t bother us at all. If others have a problem that’s up to them!

It is possible to a certain extent to teach that personal comments about people are not ok and can hurt feelings, but it takes time and consistency.

I don't have a child like that but my niece is just as you have described. I've not spent much time with her in recent years but did so this weekend. She came out with things which I know she said to shock but I don't think she has control over what actually comes out. As in she thinks it and then says it. She is a bit older than you ds though, in her mid teens.

This is likely to be a mix of lack of social awareness, plus also that it gets a reaction! Plus potentially problems inhibiting (dysexecutive problems appear in ASD as well as ADHD).

I would recommend that for behaviour that seems to be aiming to get a rise:
Ignore as much as you can, very low emotional and verbal reaction.
If you feel you must react, check his behaviour at the time "that's not a nice thing to say" but reman very calm and explain later.
Clear very positive verbal emotional reaction when he is socially appropriate "DS that was so lovely what you said to that lady!".

For any behaviour where he doesn't seem to know it's not okay:
A social story or clear explanation of why that's not okay, delivered later on when all is calm (means the message is absorbed better and also means it isnt attentionally feeding the behaviour).
He might need a lot of repetition of this and struggle to generalise from situation to situation
Note theres no point in doing this bit if he clearly knew it wasn't okay (eg was sniggering etc).

For ongoing inhibition issues (eg if he doesn't seem to want to say it, knows it's not okay but then says anyways and gets upset he has said it): id seek further assessment and input.

I wouldn't stress it, even if they are unaware of his asd people will just assume your kid is an oddball.

It doesn't necessarily reflect on you.

Also the interest in death is not uncommon - it's so unknowable and uncertain that it definitely attracts a lot of wanting to know allllll about it. Plus there's all the different societal rules around it, and all the different rituals and...

Coming from a slightly different perspective, I’m a teacher and know lots of kids like this. He’ll find his tribe and most kids are pretty tolerant, high school can admittedly be a bit less friendly but there’s likely to also be more kids dealing with the same thing he can relate to.

The show offy silly comments I’d ignore but do think it’s worth working on the blunt but unkind ones. Someone suggested social stories up thread and they can be so helpful.

Thanks so much everybody all this really helps. I've had some dark thoughts in the past (worried he's going to grow up to be some mad creepy person obsessed with death or worse) I know that's a really awful thing to say about my own son, hence never voicing it. He is just a young boy and it's upto me, his parent, to guide him and I try my best but it's such a struggle sometimes

My son used to make inappropriate comments a lot usually about people's appearances so going round the supermarket there would be a stream on "you're fat, you're bald, you're ugly" and then he'd be delighted to find somebody "Wow you're fat, ugly and bald". We solved it to a large extent by insisting he whispered to me rather than shouting out loud any mention of fat, ugly or bald. Was never sure whether he grew out of it or the extra effort of needing to whisper to me acted as a deterrant. He's an adult now and incredibly polite and thoughtful and any disparaging comments are usually aimed at the TV when watching the football.

My dd (also stereotypical old-school Asperger’s) was rather excited to go on a train for the first time, decided to watch Thomas the Tank Engine to prepare herself. Am extremely obese man got on board and she squealed and clapped her hands, exclaiming “It’s the Fat Controller! It’s the Fat Controller!!!” I think she was about 9 at the time. A bit old for Thomas, and I was as mortified as the poor bloke she was unintentionally fat shaming.

This is very common among those on the spectrum, in my experience. I have three relatives in my wider family on the spectrum, all fairly high functioning, but eccentric in their behaviour and lacking a social 'filter'. There are bound to be some peer groups and resources out there that can help you and your son develop the tools to manage this. Good luck!

Hope you don't mind my post but I am NT (i think) and so are my kids. I used to embarrass mum and dad a lot. I think it's really normal for kids to speak truthfully even if at times it's horrifically embarrassing and rude.

Also some NT adults NEVER read the room and are rude AF their entire lives so don't stress too much if you get it wrong sometimes. That was to the lady who said non autistics know how to read the room.

I agree with another poster that it sounds like he thinks he is being funny. You say people laugh, so that is reinforced. You need to start saying that is not funny.

I sort of see what you mean but my DD had a lad with autism approaching her in a sexual manner which progressed to the stage that she felt scared, he only stopped when a teacher sat him down and had a conversation with him. He hasn’t been near her since but it took for the school to educate him and I think it was a bit of a shock. I understood he was autistic and asked them to talk about the social queues involved because I did not want to be unfair but simultaneously I need to protect my daughter and it made her feel bad. Despite his autism he was able to understand that she was upset, he might not appreciate why but being autistic does not mean stupid.

I agree with using “It’s the rule.” It is the best advice I was ever given for my now adult autistic son. For example, you could tell him that it is the rule that we can talk about Putin at home but not at school or in shops. Unfortunately, inappropriate comments, in a foghorn voice, are part of the territory with many autistic people. Reminders of indoor voices can help. I can remember walking past a group of elderly ladies on a narrow pavement and asking my children to walk in single file so that the ladies could get past. At 140+ decibels, my son called out “the old ladies.” No hole to crawl into. Rude noises are another minefield. One time we were at my parents’ house when my father let out a loud report. “Nice one, Grandad” was my son’s response. I have had to say that if someone makes a rude noise from any end, we pretend it hasn’t happened and we say nothing.

He is a stickler for the rules. Is this an asd trait ?

If you feel he would remember then some good advice about talking before you go out about not saying anything about another person at all, not commenting on how they look or sound or the poster suggesting whispering it to you if he must.
I would probably just try and instigate that one rule or boundary above all else as too many will just confuse.
Are you sure there is no aspect of tourettes or anything else like that as sometimes that can be like a compulsion to say outlandish things or typical rude things?
Just a suggestion.

@ashamedadmitting very often autistic children and people like a rule or if there are clear guidelines for something.

It can still sometimes backfire ("how does this dress look?" "...my mum says it's a rule not to tell people when they look bad") . You might also find sometimes it's really hard to put a social "rule" into words!

You will almost certainly have to remind him of the rules on a regular basis. Hide-bound rules and routines are a trademark of ASD and are expected to be followed by others as well as themselves.

My autistic ds is like this.

Unfortunately his fantastic very dry sense of humour comes with saying things that make you want the ground to swallow you up whole

Have you ever seen comic strip conversations? They do social discussion in the thread person. It takes the speaker (your ds) out of the situation and gets him to think about how the 2 other people involved would feel or react. So it removes the blame iyswim?

Also for me they worked because my ds is just always right (in his opinion!) so any attempt at starting to get him to think about his actions just started a conversation where he'd justify everything about why what he's thinks and says is right 🫣🤣

I'm also wondering if your ds does what mine does re asking an opinion?

Ds "what do think is best between x and y"
Me "I prefer X"
Ds "no y is best because of ........." <cue 3 hours of reasons my opinion is wrong>

I do him injustice because at 18 he's fffaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr better than he was and those difficult bits of his neuro development have actually sought to become of benefit to him. But I do still have to remind him sometimes to reign it in.

And what I've also found the best tool is teaching him more about who and where to have those conversations. So I tell him lots of people aren't interested in politics so before he goes off on a rant about a trump or Putin to ask the listener if they have an interest in politics and their opinion on those things. If they share an interest then it's someone they can have that conversation with - behind closed doors

I found high school was kinder and more tolerant than primary school. At primary the class had a sort of pecking order with some quite unkind kids at the top of the pecking order. At secondary there was a bigger pool of kids to make friends from and the cool kids didn't bother the geekier ones. It was just a more tolerant place.

Well @Littleroseseverywhere I did write that. He may well be autistic but the world is not full of autistic others and he will have to deal with them when he says his 'funny' quips.
How else is he going to learn? Pray do tell