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Can someone explain how the 11+ exam works to an idiot?

13 replies

Crunchymum · 04/04/2023 17:51

Is this an exam specific to a school?

So you take one 11+ for school A and a different one for school B

Or is it just one test? And the results can be used to access a variety of schools?

The reason I ask is someone mentioning their child will "just take the 11+ and see what happens" and I've never heard this before. Googling hasn't really clarified anything for me.

OP posts:
Nonameoclue · 04/04/2023 17:53

It varies by area. If you look at www.elevenplusexams.co.uk you'll find all the information.
Many schools have their own exam. In Buckinghamshire & Kent all children sit it (more or less). In some areas the highest scores get in, others have a cut off score & catchment.
Where are you?

Eleven Plus Exams - the Selective School Exam Preparation Experts

FREE 11 plus papers, online tests, lots of eleven plus practice papers, Verbal Reasoning, Non-Verbal Reasoning, Maths & English. UK's largest 11 plus site & 11 plus forum, 1.9 million visitors.

http://www.elevenplusexams.co.uk

Twospaniels · 04/04/2023 17:54

If your child takes and passes the 11+ exam then they will be able to attend a grammar school (if there are any in your area)

If they don’t take it or fail it then they will go to the local secondary school.

Grammar school (IMO) is similar to private school in it’s ethos but you don’t have to pay fees. Often the classes are smaller and by passing an exam to get in they are taking the brightest young people.

about 16 years ago my daughter took the 11+ and passed. I did not have her tutored through it, I just bought some past papers from WHSmiths and she worked through those.

Crunchymum · 04/04/2023 18:02

We're in London. Many thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

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Buckmum · 25/10/2023 14:20

how did 11+ marking work

Does anyone know what the maximum standardised score is for the bucks 11+

ie is over 150 or 160 possible? I thought 142 was the maximum

TheThingIsYeah · 25/10/2023 14:33

Twospaniels · 04/04/2023 17:54

If your child takes and passes the 11+ exam then they will be able to attend a grammar school (if there are any in your area)

If they don’t take it or fail it then they will go to the local secondary school.

Grammar school (IMO) is similar to private school in it’s ethos but you don’t have to pay fees. Often the classes are smaller and by passing an exam to get in they are taking the brightest young people.

about 16 years ago my daughter took the 11+ and passed. I did not have her tutored through it, I just bought some past papers from WHSmiths and she worked through those.

"The best education money can't buy!" I remember the headteacher saying when our daughter first joined grammar school.

Unfortunately there were no small classes. In recent years the intake has gone up from 112 per year to 192 (6 classes of 32).

I'm not sure my daughter really enjoyed it. Sure, she got good grades, but developing a friendship circle outside of school was difficult as a lot of the kids travelled from London each day. Some of the poor girls used to take over 2 hours to get to school which was child abuse IMO. Why can't the parents move nearby. Oh no, can't be doing that as I'd be too far from work was the excuse one have me at parents evening. They should have brought in a catchment policy.

Anyway, I digress. 11+ exam. As PP pointed out if you attain the required benchmark score you have a pool of schools to choose from. And remember it's not strictly how clever they are, it's how they perform relative to the other candidates that took the exam. I think there may have been some weighting so that the kids born in the August were given a leg up compared to those born in the Sept. Certainly there was talk of it.

SecondaryConfussion · 25/10/2023 14:54

We just got through the 11 plus process, so feel free to PM me.

It really depends on where you live and what the school's criteria is. We live in Orpington and have access to the Bexley grammars schools, Kent grammar schools and also the local supper selective grammar school called St. Olaves.

Bexley has its own 11 plus test which if you pass gives you access to the 4 grammar schools within Bexley. However, just passing the test is sometimes not enough as distance also plays a role. So if you're score is amongst the top 180 kids, then it doesn't matter where you live - if you choose a Bexley school then you're guaranteed a place. However, if you're not in the top 180, then it is based on distance. So someone living closer to school with a lower pass mark will get in as compared to someone living further away with a higher pass mark.

Kent: Kent has its own 11 plus exam for all the grammar schools in Kent (which are quite a few!) At a minimum, you need to pass the test to be considered for the grammar schools. However, whether or not you actually get a place then depends on each school's admission criteria. Some schools will go on distance, while others will have a fixed number of places for high scoring children (e.g. Judd and Dartford have some places reserved for children who have a high score and don't live in Kent - so distance isn't an issue as long as you have a high score. These schools are usually referred to as super selectors, as they tend to have their own cut off marks - just passing Kent test isn't enough, you need to pass it with a high score)

St. Olaves - this is also a super selective school and has no catchment. I know some children who will travel a ridiculous distance to get to this school. They have their own exam which is done in 2 stages.

Tutoring - based on my research, this really depends on where you live. Some areas have grammar schools which aren't super selective and just passing the 11 plus will get you in. If you're in such an area, then as long as you child in amongst the top of their class and understands exam techniques and does some past papers, they will have a good chance of getting in. Some tutoring may be beneficial.

However, if you're in an area with access to super selective grammar schools then it's a different ball game. Again, it also depends on where you live. For example, if you live within Kent and are within the catchment of a grammar school, then you only need to pass the test and any bright child with a bit of practice can do that. However, if you're outside catchment and are aiming for the handful of seats reserved for high scorers, then quite a bit of tutoring and practice is involved - especially if you're trying for a school like Olaves.
In an ideal world, everyone would sit the 11 plus exam and the paper would be based on what they have already learnt in school. But the reality is that schools like Olaves have questions on topics that the children would never have seen at school and the only way to crack that is through tutoring. At first I tried to fight the system as I thought having access to tutoring isn't what grammars are aimed at and it isn't fair on those who can't afford it. But I soon realised that my child would be the one left behind as everyone else around me seemed to have multiple tutors! We didn't go crazy - my son had a tutor once a week and didn't drop out any of his extra curricular activities, but towards the end we did ramp up a lot.

At the end, he got the school he was aiming for and it taught him the importance of hard work.

SecondaryConfussion · 25/10/2023 14:55

Wow.. that was a very long post 🙂
I'm just glad we're done with it for now!

Memememestillme · 25/10/2023 15:09

If you don't mind @SecondaryConfussion I'd like to know more about what tutoring is needed for St Olaves? When did you start? DH wants our son to go there but I'm not sure personally. I went to Newstead Woods (the sister school for girls) myself and I didn't really enjoy it. I didn't have any tutoring, but obviously that was 25 years ago so quite different I'm sure. But I guess I'd like him to have the option rather than not

AllProperTeaIsTheft · 25/10/2023 15:15

Often the classes are smaller

I doubt it. Certainly not the case on the grammar school where I teach, where class sizes are comparable to other state schools. I have had a couple of classes of 31. Most are 28-30. Grammar schools do not receive more funding than other state schools, so they can't afford a higher teacher-to-student ratio.

SecondaryConfussion · 25/10/2023 15:35

@Memememestillme I would say that quite a bit of tutoring is required for Olaves. I know of only 1 child who had no tutoring and managed to pass it, but he's a bit of a genius 🙂
Olaves 1st stage is a multiple choice paper like any other 11 plus exam, and covers questions on Maths, English and Reasoning, but the level of those questions is considerably higher than your usual 11 plus exam. As an example my son had some probability and sequencing questions, which would definitely not be covered in school in year 5. The 2nd stage of Olaves contains a long comprehension or poetry appreciation and also creative writing. Now you would think that creative writing would be easy for a child with a good imagination, but that isn't what Olaves are looking for. They want a piece with a very high level of vocabulary. So tutoring is definitely required for the 2nd stage. Most people aiming for Olaves start tutoring from year 4.

Having said that, Olaves wasn't our first choice and we haven't put it as our first choice in the admissions form. This is because it is known to be a school that puts a lot of pressure on its students and we didn't think that would be the best place for our son. He is academic, but us also good in music and enjoys sports, so there were other grammars within Kent that would suit him more. The only positive point for Olaves for us would have been the convenience of having a school so close.

Stomacharmeleon · 25/10/2023 16:06

In some areas of Kent they have grammars that have their own tests so you can fail the 11+ and get into a grammar school (looking at you Dover)

Memememestillme · 25/10/2023 18:10

Thanks @SecondaryConfussion you've spurred me into action. It's about time I started looking into tutors

SecondaryConfussion · 25/10/2023 18:23

@Memememestillme watch out for tutors who come with loads of reviews but basically are running an exam factory. I've come across some that will only do online lessons (started during COVID but never went back to face to face) and run online classes with 40-50 student. How a 10 year old is meant to sit in front of a laptop for 2 hours and learn is beyond me!

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