Witness Protection - how does it work?

[HeyJudeNanananana]

Just been reading the thread about Thomas Cashman, and it got me thinking about Witness Protection and how it actually works.

Do you get moved to the other side of the country with a new identity? What about jobs etc?

Would your family get told or get to come with you? It must be incredibly difficult!

Yes, I know there is Google, I have had a look but just thought I would put my random Sunday evening ponderings on here.

I wonder what happens about medical records?

@cornishcrusader they can be broadly ported over using the new name and ID but older handwritten ones are trickier as they are harder to alter to reflect the new identity. I’m not sure what would happen if someone had a very complex history though.

equally social services records. A family I worked with had got CP records however as they were moving away from dad after testifying against him, and he was the concern it was less complicated. Not sure how it’d work for very risky individuals. Assume similar to those granted anonymity orders, such as Maxine Carr or child offenders who are then released. I’d guess Mary Bell’s backstory was somewhere when she had her baby?

Actually I have known two people ( though 25 years apart) who have been given new identities to escape abusive relationships where serious risk of being killed was involved. Both were moved to nice little cottages in a lovely area. I guess for neither of them it made up never being able to see family again.

Interesting that both told people they had been given new identities.

Part of me does wonder at the motivation of the witness in Olivia’s case. Her partner had already been convicted of assisting an offender, he had a drug debt. Her life wasn’t exactly a bed of roses. The area in question is an utter shithole. She did the right thing, but I question her motive.

She was called Danielle Cable, she witnessed her boyfriend be killed by a gang member in a road rage incident when she was about 18 and went into witness protection. There was a programme made about it starring Joanne Froggatt called EyeWitness.

Something else I wondered - what if someone needed to go into WP but they share children with an ex. Presumably no one would choose to join their ex in WP especially if the situation had nothing to do with them but access to the kids would undermine the whole WP situation.

I wondered because I’m sure I read the Cashman witness is a mother. So it made me wonder who the dad is and if he is involved in the kids lives, what that means for him.

So it made me wonder who the dad is and if he is involved in the kids lives, what that means for him

It might be more what it means for her. The children might stay with their Dad. If he's an active hands on Dad he has as much right to the children as she has. It might be safer & more stable for the children to remain with him

Interesting but sombering… can’t imagine how hard it must be to lose everything and to have to start again.

This is interesting.

I cannot imagine how difficult it would be

Old post I'm aware, but incase anyone was still looking : I know someone very close who had to go into witness protection. And I can tell you it's horrendous and nothing to be glamorised.

The person was a key witness in a murder trial, without their testimony the offender would of walked free from a brutal murder.
The person was put into witness protection virtually overnight, had to move miles! Away from family, including children. (Was separated from partner and kids stayed with partner) had to change their name and whole identity, and set up life in a completely new place. Had no option of housing, was put into a horrible home, and basically left to set up a new life.
Which they did,ex partner moved to where they were so the kids could have close contact to both, they remarried, built a happy successful life, nice home, extended family, built a successful business.

The offender is now set to be due for a parole hearing, due to our justice system being abysmal when it comes to sentencing, he's severed less than 30 years for a horrific crime as well as other offences charged against them,

The person in witness protection is now having to face the prospect of having to move with their new partner all over again, if parole is granted.
Meaning they'll have to leave there beautiful home, which they remodelled, leave the successful business they've built up, including the staff in the lurch because of course they can't say a thing, the new partner will have to leave there grown up children and family, and of course the witness leave the family that followed them behind again and have to start somewhere again under new identities.

I know they are truly heartbroken as are there families. Supposedly they've been in the same place for too long and risk being found.
There is also another person in witness protection for the same trial. Whom I'm presuming will have to do the same.

They can be picked up and moved at any moment, middle of the night, aren't allowed to say goodbye, have to leave all there belongings behind, they're given a "run bag" which has new mobiles, and the essentials.
There car will be taken and crushed. There home will be packed by movers, without them there, and held in storage and sold without them being present. They aren't allowed to communicate with family at all. Bank accounts frozen, business will be closed. They'll be moved to a b&b and given a spending allowance per day, until it's safe to move them to an apartment and they have no idea how long they'll have to stay there until they are allowed to be put somewhere more permanent.

In my opinion criminals such as this should never be allowed out, if they pose such a risk to individuals that they're having to cease to exist and be essentially put into hiding, then they are too dangerous to be out amongst the public and should remain behind bars until the end of there days.
The crime that was committed in my opinion was such that they shouldn't see the light of day anyway, let alone be allowed to walk free, back to the place they lived before, surrounded by there family and friends whilst others are having to leave there's or live without there's.

Huge system failures in my opinion.

I wonder what happens in regard to student finance if a person is forced to stop a course of study part way through?

Does the debt for the years already studied get written off ( doubt it )

Do they get the avalible funding back ( a person who has already taken out a student loan or had a qualification at a particular level has limited future funding options)

Super interesting thread, thanks OP!

How do you know this?

It's got to be so much harder nowadays. Social media, facial recognition. People with the right connections could find your face somewhere on a system.
I could not imagine having to give everything up and everything you've known.

How do you give someone like Maxine Carr or Karen Matthews a new identity? Name changing, fine, but unless they get plastic surgery or don dark glasses and a wig 24/7 surely they will be easily recognizable?

Karen Matthews has been papped loads of times I suppose for her it's a case of keeping your head down and hoping people forget especially as she is the othet side of the country.

If you are in witness protection you have to cut all ties and communication with family and friends. They do not support you financially - you have to find a job. People often lose the standard of living that they had.

@SandraTeaspoon because I know someone in the system. Although I shouldn't know what I know. I do

Facial recognition is not really a problem and is unlikely to become one.

a person with "the right connections" has always been able to get your current address form a private organisation if that organisation has your address ( say because your a customer ) and they have a "right connection" within it.

It is for this reason that people who are given protection sometimes have to change their name - which contrary to popular belief is a simple process that leaves no link to your original identity and is not at all a big deal, all it means is you use a new name for any correspondence with organisation ( changing your NI number or transferring certain assets such as pensions or property to your new name without leaving a link between your old and new identity in some private organisations records which a "right connection" may have access to is more difficult )

All facial recognition does is allow for quick identification of an individual if their picture is in a publicly available or privately held set of images. It tells you nothing about where the picture was taken unless the content of the image has some clues or the location it was taken from is known but even this will only show that you were in a specific place and some time which is much less useful than what some "right connection" can already get.

Most privately held images of people ( say from CCTV ) are kept locally so the chances of their being a "right connection" in the case of someone who has moved far away are very very slim.

Publicly available images are likely to be available over a wider geographic area but the only change in modern times is social media so all you have to do is not post pictures of yourself on social media.
The only modern threat I can think of in this regard is if your picture appears in some national publication ( nothing new there ) and it gets uploaded to a large database of images connected to a facial recognition system and this system is publicly available ( like a search engine ) or the organisation holding it has a "right connection" in it. but even then it will only show that you were in a certain location at some point.

Cashmans girlfriend was moved, everyone knows Evers she is though because she's always posting about it. Vile woman she is, I can't stand her

I have idly wondered about this since reading a book in which this happened to one of the characters. I often wonder what happens regarding work/jobs as I have a pretty high level professional job in which I have to remain on a searchable certification register to maintain my qualification in order to do it- it’s a relatively niche field, in which you could DEFINITELY find someone who has this job if you were so inclined to do so. Would I have to switch jobs? I can’t really imagine doing anything else at this level (I am relatively useless at most other things, ha!) so would I have to accept a huge drop in income/living standards?

girlfriend or the ex who was a witness in the trial?

Part of the protection is the the press aren’t allowed to report your new name or location.

Pieces of the jigsaw are always going to be out there but it’s not always super easy for people to put them all together to find out a name and location.

I know this is an old thread , but i just found it.
Im going to be speaking about the WPP from first hand experience.
Myself and my little boy where put on the program in 2013.
Its very true that most people that get put on the WPP are criminals themselves, turns informers, but not all.
I was almost killed by my ex husband when i left him. and while he was serving his prison sentence he was assessed , and it was strongly believed that myself and my son would never be safe when he got out of prison.

while he was locked up i had already taken my own steps to change myself and my sons identity , but i was told that was not enough and that he would still be able to trace us.
so i accepted the witness protection program.
We got taken to a different part of the country, and they rented a house for us, it was a bit of a shit house, but it was ok, this was just for 6 months, they called it the interim period.
before we went on the WPP i was renting privately.
Anyway, while in the interim house we got put at the top of the council house list.
you get offered the choice of 3 houses, all of them where undesirable,

Basically what the local authority do is offer you the ones that no one really wants, I accepted the one we live in now, it was the best one out of the 3, its ok and im grateful for it. its in a little village and a very quiet and safe area which is what i wanted as i was a single mum alone miles from anyone.
The people looking after us were great, they moved is in, they painted the house, sorted the overgrown garden, got me a car to replace mine that had to be scraped so i could not be traced through it, they gave me money to furnish the house, I had about 3 grand worth of debt, but they paid it off, otherwise i would have had people trying to chase me for it. I was told that normally they set up a payment plan for you to pay the WPP back, but they told me a didn't have to pay it back, they were good to us.
might have been something to do with the fact that i had warned the police before my husband stabbed me 35 times and blinded my in my left eye Infront of my 5 year old son, We had run away to a refuge, i called the police asking for help because i learned that he had found out where we were staying, and the police did not take me seriously, after that, the police complaints commission got involved and a few people almost lost their jobs.
Anyway, after they got us settled in, they visited and supported us for awhile, but then we were basically left on our own, abvs they leave you a contact number in case you ever need them.
i was told we stay on the program but we are dormant,
ive not heard from them in years, sad that no one has checked up on us.
This is how its been for us anyway, might be different for others.

Wow that is a lot!