Witness Protection - how does it work?

[HeyJudeNanananana]

Just been reading the thread about Thomas Cashman, and it got me thinking about Witness Protection and how it actually works.

Do you get moved to the other side of the country with a new identity? What about jobs etc?

Would your family get told or get to come with you? It must be incredibly difficult!

Yes, I know there is Google, I have had a look but just thought I would put my random Sunday evening ponderings on here.

I am following with interest as I've also always wondered how it works. Especially the job part or I wonder if your just left to get your own job with a new identity .

And do you get swapped to the same level of lifestyle you had? I potentially wouldn’t mind witnessing a crime if I could move from semi in suburbs to a glorious architectural glass and indoor/outdoor living place on a beautiful cliff top

Oooh I always wondered about the job side of things!

Exactly! If you had a job earning about £60k a year do they give you a like for like career? Especially if it was something you were trained in (thinking solicitor, doctor etc)

If they wanted to move me to a gorgeous little cottage by the ocean with no people around for miles I could cope with that........

I believe that they are given a completely new identity and moved away. I don't think they can even tell family members where they are.
People who do this must he incredibly brave x

What a horrible comment. You really wouldn’t want to witness a crime where you need witness protection. I knew a family who had to escape as they had witnessed someone being murdered and they weren’t involved in any of it. They tried to help but unfortunately they had died. The family that was left behind were still being harassed and threatened years later. The person had to start from the bottom it destroyed their life.

What is life like in the UK's witness protection programme? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-33863013

Apparently the intention is to give you the living standard you were used to before entering the scheme. They try to give you a lifestyle you were used to as thats part of who you are.

I couldn't imagine having to do it. I take it your family get told rather than you just disappearing? My DC are older teens so not a the stage of having to depend on me

It is an incredibly brave thing to do

I know from experience you can witness fairly horrific crimes in this country without being put into witness protection or it ever being mentioned, left with no access to counselling or any follow up once the police have their pound of flesh in the form of statements, even young children, so my heart goes out to anyone who has been put into it as I can't imagine how much worse what they've had to go through is. I'd never wish that on anyone.

Not sure about the job thing. I’ve read a couple of books; one ‘Bloggs 19’ was about the ‘super grass’ who gave evidence in the Essex Range Rover murders. They (him and others in WP) were all housed in a big(ish) facility and no one was told anyone’s name, they were ‘Bloggs 1’ etc. He said everyone knew who he was as the case was so notorious. Darren something his name was.

In other books I’ve read that have touched on the same subject, the people are given a new backstory. Every trace of the old them is removed (NI numbers, tax records, birthdates, marriages) and they have a ‘handler’ while they get used to their new lives and stories. If they have to claim benefits (for example), their file will only be able to be viewed and dealt with by certain staff.

Oh wow thanks for this!

That is actually quite harrowing to read, especially as Carla had to leave her kids as well.

It must cost a fortune to maintain as well, with the police, psychologists involved etc

You get moved to another part of the country. Your family can’t know where you are and you can’t have contact generally speaking, although occasional meets can be arranged many miles from your new location. You are given a completely new identity. You are not necessarily given an equal level of lifestyle. @PlantagenetEmbassy im sorry you had a bad experience. My experience of investigating horrific offences is that families are assigned a family liaison officer (a role I did many times) and are put in contact with ongoing support agencies. They are also heavily supported through the very lengthy judicial process. I’ve never known a family just be left to get on with it, that’s not to say this doesn’t happen in some policing areas. The investigation teams I worked on were passionate about getting justice for the families in question, rather than just wanting a pound of flesh.

i know from experience you can witness fairly horrific crimes in this country without being put into witness protection or it ever being mentioned

But It's not about what you've witnessed its about the risk to your life if you give evidence. You could witness the most horrific crime but be at no risk once the perpetrator is convicted or converselyt witness something much more minor but be at huge risk because of the parties involved

WP isn't something offered or accepted lightly. You're basically walking away from your entire life - forever

Very few people could even contemplate that

Yes that's my thinking too. I've got a feeling the police help them find a job but I'm not 100% (I vaguely remember a family member who was in the police telling me).

Name changed for this

When my family member was murdered, one of the really weird things was being taken to a safe house while the house was being searched/evidence gathered. It was quite startling how all of our ‘rights’ - like access to our own belongings/house/phones got stripped away. Info would appear in the press that we hadn’t been told by our FLOs. We were so tightly controlled - and yet we were the victims.

It is utterly brutal and devastating, and not a fun subject for idle dreaming. I have put one child into witness protection, and accepted 3 in witness protection, in my job, and for all of them it was absolutely awful. One child had given evidence against her father and the others had been accepted the near continent in an exchange, so they lost their language, nationality and identity, alongside everything else

A friend dated someone who another friend (long time police worker)strongly suspected of being in witness protection. She told us a few interesting things:

1. The vast majority of people in witness protection were criminals NOT innocent victims...they'd turned informer
2. They often don't have high paid jobs previously. They seem to be given fake referees so they can get a job in a new area
3. They are paid benefits ...at least initially
4. They aren't allowed any contact with previous people including going to those cities
5. They are moved to one location and then to another 'permanent location

That's all I remember. Friend was not an expert on this topic but had some knowledge....

Not quite witness protection but..

Maxine Carr was placed in a town near me after she was released. It was not a desirable place to live. It was even less desirable once she told someone who she was and the whole town camped out outside chucking stuff at her windows.

She had a new name and everything. Christ knows why she told an absolute gobshite anyone who she really was

Really!? A 9 year old girl was shot and killed and you wouldn't mind witnessing such a crime..

She had a new name and everything. Christ knows why she told an absolute gobshite anyone who she really was.

I suppose it must be very hard to keep up the pretence of the new identity at all times.
Also it must be tempting to get in touch with friends from the past - especially now when social media makes it so easy.

I once read about a well known case around 25 years ago where the girlfriend of the victim went into witness protection after giving evidence, I won't name her as it feels wrong but you probably know who I'm referring to. I'm sure I read something like she really struggled to rebuild her life but is happy now. I sometimes wonder how she's doing.

If you meet a new partner it must be hard living on a lie as well.

It all depends, had a friend who was very senior police and had involvements in past cases (it's above regular police but they knew of people on their patch). It's generally very complex situations and very uncommon, not the kind of people who had a normal life in the first place. Where they are placed and ongoing support obviously varies a lot. The case he knew most about was relocated to another part of the U.K.

It’s all about looking for evidence, both forensic evidence and general evidence. This is needed to prove an offence. It might be inconvenient to have to leave your home but it’s vital to gather as much evidence as possible. As for information appearing in the press, that you weren’t told of, by your flo, the Police have no control over what the press print. The press are scum that are extremely intrusive and will do anything for a story. You won’t be given all the information in a case because you don’t need to know everything and they won’t want to jeopardise or compromise the case by telling you everything. Any decent flo will tell you this when you meet them.