Do you think removal of S21 "no fault" evictions will make life for renters better or worse?

[Treacletoots]

The rental market is a shit show, we know that. A drop in available properties, rising interest rates etc all leading to increased rents whilst tenants also believe landlords are all deviants who will evict them for complaining about issues.

But.. do we genuinely believe removing the ability for landlords to issue a section 21 "no fault/explanation" evictions will help?

If landlords can no longer regain their property without blame or hassle on either side, for whatever reason, I.e. non payment of rent, anti social behaviour, because they want to sell it etc will they stay in the market?

In the last 2 years rental housing availability has dropped 30% because landlords are leaving the sector. What happens to prices when there is more demand than supply?

What do we think will happen if the government do announce a ban on S21, I estimate half of the remaining landlords will sell up, after all being a landlord is voluntary and most could currently get a better return by putting their money in the bank.

Just wondered whether people have considered the real life outcomes of landlords en mass saying "I've had enough"

Things need to improve, but I genuinely don't think this is the solution everyone needs.

Unlike other posters here, I had terrible experiences with landlords with one or two properties. The best landlord I had owned 120 . when something broke he had his own handyman employee round the next day. He had plumbers and roofers he could get round within days.

i had a landlord with one property who didn’t replace my broken oven for two months because he was on holiday and didn’t check his emails (he used an agency who had visited and declared the oven broken but had to get sign off from him to replace the oven) .

I had two different landlords who tried to do skilled repairs themselves and just meant loads of hassle for me taking days off to wait in for them to try and fix a boiler or leak or something because they just didn’t have the cash reserves they should have done (or didn’t expect to pay money they should have been willing too) and I had to ring repeatedly to get it sorted.

loads of have a go landlords dodge legislation or have badly maintained properties or view it as their own house and turn up without even asking you if they can come in.

Personally I think faceless organisation are more likely to meet minimum standards because one report to council could mean inspections and fines on loads of properties not just one.

if rental properties fall into home owners instead then that’s a net nill effect because that’s one less family renting. The only cost is if they go into air bnb but i can’t see that happening much outside very rural or city.l centres. Who wants to go on holiday to a 3 bed terrace in suburban neighbourhood ?

Watch this week's panorama, the rental situation is shit.

I work for a HA, we are building constantly but still have a closed waiting list because there are tens of thousands who need housing already on our list.

If you need anything bigger than a 1 bed flat, forget it. Family size housing, no chance. Waiting times are around 8-10 years from the day you put in the application.

Meanwhile I spend my days trying to convince Judges to allow me to evict awful ASB tenants, who ruin neighbourhoods and Judges really won't budge and allow the eviction because everyone deserves a home.

As much as I sympathise, because I live near people who are anti social and they make it a bit of a scary place to live, where would these people end up if evicted from social housing? Kids in care and on the streets probably, because certainly where I am, SH is the option of last resort and there's not a massive waiting list and private rents, while certainly more expensive, aren't totally ridiculous like some areas, especially villages where I live where there's bugger all and no one wants to live here.
The people I'm talking about have been moved around different areas a lot due to ASB, it seems once one place gets fed up of them and there's loads of complaints, they get shifted somewhere else and the cycle begins again.
But if the local authority is responsible for housing them then do they kind of have their hands tied about it?
Seems like a no win situation really for all involved.

How DARE those NASTY Tenants want pets?! I mean anyone would think that they were human or something?
You're doing them SUCH a favour allowing them to pay off the mortgage on your property, and they may want to have a cat? 😱😱😱

Stop private lets and build social housing so that rents paid go back into social housing, not paying off the mortgage of a second etc property when the tenant can't get one.
Also bring back 100% mortgages. Just not the toxic 125% ones that wrecked it last time.

But I know that's not what MN wants to hear.

Why isn't it what MN wants to hear? I completely agree with you

@Seymour74 there will still be grounds to evict, the same as there currently are, but given that it can take.between 18 and 24 months to remove a tenant through these other grounds, it's hardly an acceptable alternative to the S21 which is much much quicker.

The other consideration now is that tenants evicted via S21 because it is easier (most) but actually didn't pay rent or behaved badly will now find it incredibly hard to rent again, and will be liable for the unpaid rent and will likely get a CCJ now that it is recorded correctly. Another shot in the foot.

MN is either Team LL or Team Tenant. There is very rarely middle ground.

@Abergale "loads of have a go landlords dodge legislation or have badly maintained properties "

Please quote your source for this information.

Every landlord I know, large or small are fully on top of their legal obligations and have well maintained properties.

These are also the ones who will.be leaving the sector because they've had enough. The ones that will remain are the ones who didn't give a flying fuck about legislations and will continue to behave in that way. You cant legislate for people who choose to willingly ignore legislation...

I have quite a few friends who are in the forces, who currently let their houses out because they’ve been posted away. Rather than split the family up during the weekend, they rent or live in married quarters, but don’t sell up because they want to keep on the property ladder. Selling and buying at their new posting isn’t really an option because of the fees and the fact they could have to move again after a few months make it cost prohibitive.

Every single one of them is getting out of the renting game, because as non-professional landlords, it’s just not worth the hassle or stress after all the recent and upcoming changes. So most of these houses will now be empty for long periods, instead of being a roof over somebody’s head.

My source is personal experience and multiple friends experiences during our years of being generation rent.

I could give a dozen examples but I’m sure you’d just dismiss all of them as NALs.

Every landlord I know, large or small are fully on top of their legal obligations and have well maintained properties.

I haven’t lived in a rented property for years but I’ve seen plenty when the kids rented. There hasn’t been a decent landlord over more than a dozen properties. My last landlord was utterly brilliant but that was a newly renovated property over 30 years ago. I’ve been horrified at some of the hovels our kids lived in when they rented.

I’m curious, does the proposed end to no-fault evictions include a provision for rent control?

If landlords want people out and the fixed-term tenancy with a fixed rental rate has ended, all they have to do is dramatically raise the rent.

Completely agree with the licence part, but why should anyone need to just put up with a bad tenant?
I think it needs to be easy to evict a someone for non-payment of rent or antisocial behaviour.

I’m selling mine. Not just yet as I have a good tenant in but when she goes it’s time to sell. It is my former home so not bought as a BTL.

It’s definitely no longer worth keeping. So mine will have an absolute maximum of 5 more years. I’ll sell when it is next vacant or end of the fixed term mortgage, whatever comes first. Not selling now as the market is crap.

I had planned to leave it to DD but I can’t be arsed any more. It’s too stressful.

Here is a quote from a 2022 government research briefing on the Private Rented Sector:

"The PRS has the worst housing Conditions

The expansion of the PRS has focused attention on the need to improve conditions. The English Housing Survey (EHS) estimated that in 2021, 23% of PRS homes did not meet the Decent Home Standard – around 1 million homes. This compares with 13% of owner-occupied and 10% of social-rented homes.
PRS homes were also more likely to have at least one Category 1 hazard under the Housing Health and Safety Rating System (HHSRS). An inquiry by the Public Accounts Committee in 2022 concluded “the sector is failing far too often to provide safe and secure homes for renters…”

HTH

@Ponderingwindow

There's talk of it yes, but nothing concrete. However when we get a labour government I suspect that will be their first job

@Walldoorwindow not saying that I don't trust government surveys that appear to suit their agenda but..

The worst condition housing I've seen is from social housing and the government doesn't seem to give a shiny shit about that.

Agree. I think there needs to be structures in place e.g three months no rent - eviction etc. However, what happens when there is literally nowhere for tenants to move to?

I have paid £142,000 in rental payments to my landlord for the last 8 years. I have a stable career, good credit rating, never missed a payment, look after a property. But I would be fucked trying to move now, rents have skyrocketed, I am not entitled to benefits, I cannot afford to pay more deposit up front, and I cannot afford to save for a deposit at the moment. And yet according to the bank, despite paying 142K, I cant 'afford' a mortgage because I cant save for a deposit but I can easily pay the mortgage, because I have been paying for someone elses this entire time. Landlords and estate agents are encouraging bidding wars to maximise profits and taking advantage of the fact its impossible to buy and becoming more impossible to rent. This is why my sympathy for LLs is basically zero. At the end of the day, you still have a second property.

@Walldoorwindow just spotted that it stated "estimated" the figures. Could be a similar situation to the non party "party"

The English housing survey is not conducted by the government it's run by Natcen who have existed for many decades and are one of the most respected survey organizations. They work in collaboration with academics and other researchers who oversee the quality of the research methodologies. So these are the best estimates to date and are likely to be quite accurate.

This thread is depressing. I am a good landlord - parents house rented out after they passed away. The tenant has been there for 7 years and we actually decreased the rent after a couple of years as she is a very good tenant. Haven't increased it back to initial rate 7 years ago. Have put a new kitchen in also. Surely if private landlords are forced out of the market, the rental crises will just get worse? It's not really worth it now - could get more money if I sold the house and invested the funds. Which is what I might do once the tenant leaves as less hassle and no tax benefits now with renting out properties. Even if a private landlord's tenant is paying off their mortgage, what's wrong with that? If the landlord put £350,000 into an investment and made a similar amount of money per month, no one would moan at this! Surely a good private landlord is contributing to society and helping people who would never be able to afford to buy their own home.

Even if a private landlord's tenant is paying off their mortgage, what's wrong with that? If the landlord put £350,000 into an investment and made a similar amount of money per month, no one would moan at this!

The difference is that nobody would borrow money to invest and expect other people to pay it back for them. That’s what’s happening with a mortgaged rental property.

We need a real shake up in the property landscape in this country. Much, much more social housing and the private rented sector run by professional companies. We also need to relax some of the constraints on people buying, it’s ludicrous that affordability checks tell people they can’t afford mortgage payments when they’re already paying more in rent every month.

This thread is hilarious. No one wants to pay off your mortgage rather than their own - that would be weird, frankly. If you sold your properties, house prices would come down so that they could afford to buy. And as I've shown, landlords maintain their properties in a worse condition than owner occupiers. They aren't providing a service, or "contributing to society" lol.

If it's so terrible then please be my guest and sell up immediately. There's a whole generation that will celebrate.

@Walldoorwindow they are selling up, that's literally the point of this thread. See this article from the BBC this week. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65090846.amp

There's currently 30% less rental housing stock now than in 2021. I haven't yet seen a decrease in house prices that would mean everyone could miraculously afford to buy all of a sudden.

Love or loathe landlords, I don't care, but removal of S21 WILL result in a flood of evictions before it becomes law, see what just happened in Wales. The vast majority of those people can't suddenly afford to buy and will be left homeless. That's the point I'm trying to make.

The government have, as always, mismanaged everything. They shouldn't have let things get this bad, and should have made arrangements for the likely consequences of this legislation. But that doesn't mean that section 21 should remain.
The large majority of comparable countries provide families with basic security of tenure. It's the mark of a civilized society. If your business cannot afford this then you don't have a viable business model unfortunately.