Page 2 | What are the implications of a cashless society ?

SoBoredHelpMe · 2023-03-29T10:27:12+00:00

ive noticed more and more places are becoming card only and I think it won’t be long (say within 5-10years) that we will become cashless. So I was thinking of positives and negatives and the main negative I see is the lack of privacy as everyone’s spending will be recorded digitally. A major positive though is that it would make it very difficult for e.g. drug dealers to operate ? would be interested to hear other people’s thoughts on this …..

Timeforabiscuit · 29/03/2023 12:17

Biggest one for me is access for children, they can't buy things for themselves without an adult or their own account card.

Bananalanacake · 29/03/2023 12:17

What about people who make money and declutter by selling at car boot sales, I don't see how that works without cash.

Precipice · 29/03/2023 12:21

Kazzyhoward · 29/03/2023 12:12

@Precipice

Absolutely no way to buy anything if there's a problem with your card/bank account

Unless you have loads of cash under your mattress, you wouldn't be able to get cash out of a cash machine either if there was such a problem. A bit of cash in your pocket will only last a very short amount of time, so isn't really a solution, unless all you want is a few groceries or a few pounds of petrol in your car. If the problem last more than a couple of days, you're stuck unless you have hundreds/thousands under your bed.

Currently if you lose your card, you can go into a branch and withdraw money that way. Someone else with a card can withdraw money from an ATM and lend it to you to tide you over until it gets sorted.

In a cashless society: you can't withdraw cash from the bank because cash doesn't exist, whatever cash you would otherwise have in your wallet doesn't exist, if anyone wants to help you they can only do so by physically buying things for you.

Don't underestimate the importance of 'a few groceries or a few pounds of petrol'! That's being able to eat for a few days, that's getting home.

In the current world, most bank issues are temporary, so it's really things like that that it impacts (except for the likes of Canadian trucker supporters with politically frozen accounts, I suppose, I'm not sure how long that lasted, but at least it could have gone a significant time). If you lose your wallet while travelling, even if you're travelling home and it'll soon be all right, it makes a big impact to be able to afford something to eat and the charge for the public toilets and the price of the bus ticket to the airport, and then the price of a bus ticket from the airport, even though these are small things in themselves. Unfortunately, in this I speak from past experience! Luckily I had a little money outside of my wallet.

happysingleversary · 29/03/2023 12:24

Bananalanacake · 29/03/2023 12:17

What about people who make money and declutter by selling at car boot sales, I don't see how that works without cash.

You buy a small device that can be used for contactless that goes to your card.

Or we all get a chip that does the same and holds our credits.

Frenchfancy · 29/03/2023 12:26

A cashless society can't survive without internet. Our village has had no internet for a week. The card machines in the bar and shop aren't working so it is cash only for now.

SerendipityJane · 29/03/2023 12:28

This is a TERRIFYING prospect. You want the government to be allowed to monitor your private bank account?

If it saves one child .....

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/03/2023 12:33

happysingleversary · 29/03/2023 12:24

You buy a small device that can be used for contactless that goes to your card.

Or we all get a chip that does the same and holds our credits.

Show quote history

And how secure are they? I'm not giving my card details to a total stranger handing me a hand held device when I have zero idea about that device's security.

Confuzzlediddled · 29/03/2023 12:33

When I worked in banking in the late 90s, cheques were going to cease to exist in the next few years... They still exist, I'm a scout treasurer and we use cheques, I have a chequebook for my current account, ok I don't know when I last used it but it's not been phased out.

I don't believe a cashless society will ever actually happen 🤷‍♀️

Kazzyhoward · 29/03/2023 12:38

Bananalanacake · 29/03/2023 12:17

What about people who make money and declutter by selling at car boot sales, I don't see how that works without cash.

For people who only use card and don't use cash, they're inconvenienced by having to find a cash machine and withdraw cash just in case they see something they want to buy.

Inconvenience works both ways. That's why regular car booters tend to buy their own handheld card device (or set up their smart phone to accept contactless cards held close to them).

Phoebo · 29/03/2023 12:38

Well for a start you're basically being traced, what you spend, where you are and what you spend it on. Very critical data into your psyche

mrspinkhat · 29/03/2023 12:41

The fact that so many are unable to budget and blithely stick everything on a card with no idea of how much they are actually spending is a disaster waiting to happen.

Original poster

SoBoredHelpMe · 29/03/2023 12:42

Kazzyhoward · 29/03/2023 12:08

Card only won't stop drug dealing and other illegal activities. We've had two shops that have been closed down by the police in our town as they were fronts for drug dealers. People were going on paying over the odds for pretty cheap items and getting both the item and a "little bag of something" with it! Police were alerted by locals who noticed lots of "dodgy" looking people going in, the owners having flash cars, and the fact that both shops were really uninviting to "normal" customers with poor/unhelpful staff etc. One was a sandwich/pie shop that had a very low hygiene rating and just seemed to random throw a few pies and pre-made sandwiches in the chiller counter (that looked to have come from supermarkets!). The other was a kind of gift shop that was piled high with cheap tat, the kind of plastic crap you win in the amusement arcade "tipping point" style machines. They'd both happily accept card payments and ring them through the till as "normal" sales. The pie shop was first and got a lot of local publicity in the media and SM etc., and that tipped other locals off to the gift shop in a different area, who alerted police to the same kind of activity! Likewise, it's well known that laundrettes, car washes, etc have been used for drug dealing, and likewise, now they accept card payments too!

This makes it much easier to prove though surely ? So much riskier for the criminals. Banks are already mandated to validate sources of large cash deposits….

OP posts:

Original poster

SoBoredHelpMe · 29/03/2023 12:44

Confuzzlediddled · 29/03/2023 12:33

When I worked in banking in the late 90s, cheques were going to cease to exist in the next few years... They still exist, I'm a scout treasurer and we use cheques, I have a chequebook for my current account, ok I don't know when I last used it but it's not been phased out.

I don't believe a cashless society will ever actually happen 🤷‍♀️

Good point, even DVLA still use cheques ….
I read somewhere that only 2% of transactions are cash in Sweden ….

OP posts:

Mycatisaqueen · 29/03/2023 12:47

unclebuck · 29/03/2023 11:56

It is also grim to think that every penny I earn would be subject to taxation by corporations.

Now I get paid £10 cash, I can pay my milkman in cash, he goes to the pub and pays cash, the landlord pays the bar staff in cash, they come and pay me in cash and we earn the full amount of our labour. With a 3% tax to a corporation

I get £9.70
Milkman gets £9.41
Landlord gets £8.75
Bar staff get £8.49
I get back £8.33

And mastercard/Visa paypal get the rest. Why? What have they done?

Most businesses that avoid cash are avoiding the security risk, not the principle. This is their choice but I choose not to spend there.

This is similar to how a local business explained it to me - the card reader charge is around £1 on a £20 bill, then the business account charges another £1 per transaction.

The £20 paid by card becomes £18, then lesser with each transaction made, whereas £20 in cash, stays as £20 cash.

Pixiedust1234 · 29/03/2023 12:53

As said above

Canadian Truckers having accounts frozen by government.
More and more normal accounts getting frozen by banks with no right of appeal or explanation. (Several threads on here).
No Internet (hackers or being rural).
No electricity to run device, servers or Internet (eg every winter).
Women fleeing relationship, abusive or otherwise.
Government watching your every move (see China).
Paying banks for the "privilege ", ie for nothing.
No cash for toothfairy, school fayres, children given a fiver for food after school, school snacks, treats, bus fair home, pocket money, Birthday and Christmas gifts.
Not secure due to hacking, nevermind scamming.
Banks frequently go down so you can't use cash, transfers, dd or anything.
Possibly zero control of my own money.

The list is endless. Now give me good reasons for it to be cashless. I don't see any.

UsingChangeofName · 29/03/2023 13:00

I like the fact when its charity day at school my preteen takes a handful of change to throw sponges at a teacher or try her luck on a game. I could just give the charity the same amount, but wheres the fun it that?

This.
But also ALL the charity coffee mornings, cake sales, jumble sales, bag packs, penny miles, produce sales, produce honesty boxes, bucket shakes, carol singing, etc.
Yes, a self employed plumber or hairdresser can get their own card reader, but what about all of us doing what we can to raise funds for charities on an ad hoc basis.

happysingleversary · 29/03/2023 13:05

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/03/2023 12:33

And how secure are they? I'm not giving my card details to a total stranger handing me a hand held device when I have zero idea about that device's security.

Show quote history

Sure, and it will take time to gain trust and implement it everywhere but that is the solution.

happysingleversary · 29/03/2023 13:07

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 29/03/2023 12:33

And how secure are they? I'm not giving my card details to a total stranger handing me a hand held device when I have zero idea about that device's security.

Show quote history

This is how taxis operate now.

I use one account for spending and transfer from savings into there and never leave more than is needed immediately in my current account.

I use these things all the time at market stalls and in cabs.

Jonei · 29/03/2023 13:10

It's giving over total control without having any other means of payment. Do we really want our lives controlled to that degree, where accounts can just be frozen. Just look at the case of the single mum who had her bank account frozen for legally contributing to a go fund me for the freedom fighters. If that could happen to her, then potentially this could happen to anyone, where spending power is controlled or even removed by governments.

Jonei · 29/03/2023 13:11

Pixiedust1234 · 29/03/2023 12:53

As said above

Canadian Truckers having accounts frozen by government.
More and more normal accounts getting frozen by banks with no right of appeal or explanation. (Several threads on here).
No Internet (hackers or being rural).
No electricity to run device, servers or Internet (eg every winter).
Women fleeing relationship, abusive or otherwise.
Government watching your every move (see China).
Paying banks for the "privilege ", ie for nothing.
No cash for toothfairy, school fayres, children given a fiver for food after school, school snacks, treats, bus fair home, pocket money, Birthday and Christmas gifts.
Not secure due to hacking, nevermind scamming.
Banks frequently go down so you can't use cash, transfers, dd or anything.
Possibly zero control of my own money.

The list is endless. Now give me good reasons for it to be cashless. I don't see any.

This.

NotAnotherBathBomb · 29/03/2023 13:12

SoBoredHelpMe · 29/03/2023 11:53

I’m sure the government could mandate banks to flag accounts where multiple transfers in were made over a month greater than say £1000, cross reference with tax status and there is then proof of undeclared income which at the very least should have tax paid on it and will often indicate an illegal activity. A lot easier than tracking illegal activity made with cash ?

WOW 😂

NotAnotherBathBomb · 29/03/2023 13:15

Confuzzlediddled · 29/03/2023 12:33

When I worked in banking in the late 90s, cheques were going to cease to exist in the next few years... They still exist, I'm a scout treasurer and we use cheques, I have a chequebook for my current account, ok I don't know when I last used it but it's not been phased out.

I don't believe a cashless society will ever actually happen 🤷‍♀️

Wow this is interesting. I'm 38 and have never written a cheque.

Madamecastafiore · 29/03/2023 13:15

www.globalprocessing.com/news/blog/swedens-2023-cashless-goals

EmmaEmerald · 29/03/2023 13:18

Glad to see people mentioning truckers
glad also to see people using cheques

I only ever pay cash for taxis.

Kazzyhoward · 29/03/2023 13:23

@Mycatisaqueen

This is similar to how a local business explained it to me - the card reader charge is around £1 on a £20 bill, then the business account charges another £1 per transaction.

They need to shop around for cheaper card processing and cheaper bank charges. You can get a lot cheaper than that. Are you sure they're not making it up?