Will the NHS be privatised?

[JBrew84]

Chatting to DH - he seems to think it's inevitable that the NHS will be privatised, he thinks gradually over the next 20-30 yrs we'll end up with pretty much fully private health service apart from the most basic things, even under Labour - already looks like it could have started with talk of government making people pay for GP appointments in the future. Anyone else find this really depressing? I love our NHS and it all going private is my worst nightmare...

Lots of it has already started and been privatised for some time.

Yes I've read before about some services being outsourced but the thought of bits becoming paid services is quite worrying!

Part of me wish it was privatized. I mean what are we even paying NI for? You have to jump through hoops to get a bloody GP appointment and god forbids you need to go to the A&E. I'd rather pay and have great, reliable service. It's sad but blame the government for letting it get to that.

It's already being privatised. It's been deliberately underfunded to look unworkable and justify the big sell off.

Yes it is heading that way and it's no accident. That you have to play a version of the hunger games at 8am to try to get a GP appointment, and waiting lists extending months if not years is the system working as designed. When tory donors come to the rescue with quick, efficient, co-pay 'solutions' then the cat will be fully out the bag. And the best thing about this is that the country will re-elect the tories again and again because the bogeyman isn't a multi-millionaire tory donor, it's an asylum seeker

Well I think it's pretty obvious that the NHS is teetering on the brink of collapse in its current format, can't get appointment at GP, wait for hours at A&E, months to see a specialist. Bed shortages. Discharge problems due to community care difficulties. No NHS dentists, other staff across all levels/departments leaving in droves, consultants leaving to do exclusively private work ... can't recruit to fill the vacancies... it can't carry on in its present form for much longer.

I have no suggestions as to how to make it better, I do feel pouring more money into it isn't the answer.

It's very worrying.

I hope so. I’m not sure what exactly I’m paying national insurance for at the moment. I’d rather keep that money and pay when needed- I'm already paying for private GP appointments when needed as I cannnot get in to see my own GP no matter what my issue is.

I wish we we could have a grown up conversation about what other systems are available, like the European social insurance system. The government is privatising at the supply end without improving patient choice - meaning that even post-privatisation we will have a single provider, which is also the cheapest (ie it will be even worse than now).

I'm not sure it'll necessarily be privatised, but something has to change. Parts of the system have near-collapsed post-Covid.

We spend a fairly average "first world" amount on health care (e.g. the countries near us in the rankings are Ireland, France, Belgium, Japan, Iceland etc.

We could spend more under the existing system, to help things. Eg. the Germans spend about 30-40% more per capita than we do, on healthcare (but remember they are a much richer country, and they underspend on defence).

To me, the HUGE difference with our system is that, because there is zero patient charges anywhere in the system (laudable), the demand at the front end (GP services) is essentially infinite.

You only have to talk to a GP and ask them "what percentage of your consultations are spurious / non-medical". It's enormous. Anecdotally, GPs I know say something like 50-75% of the people they see on a daily basis, don't need seen by a GP. The system is swamped by people who have no incentive whatsoever to self-manage.

So, I would like to see a funding boost to bring our health spending up a bit on a per-capita basis, I would like to see some kind of golden-handcuff system in place which claws back training costs if you don't serve the NHS for a certain amount of time (we are losing tons of doctors we train to countries which pay way more, e.g. Australia).

And I would like to see some kind of nominal friction put in place for GP visits. You should be able to see a GP at short notice, at a relatively flexible time, if you need to. You can't, because they're busy dealing with utter crap people have learned they can take to their GP.

I very much agree with this. Because the NHS is worshipped we don't seem to be able to have discussions around what it is planned to look like in the future or what alternatives exist.

I think by default now if you have the money you just go private as waiting lists are pretty long.

I'd be happy with the French system but think we will get a shit version.

Privatisation means private companies providing the care, not you having to pay at the point of use.

It can't come soon enough IMO.

We have an ageing population so NI will still need to paid & CT will keep increasing

Much of the NHS is already in private hands - most GP practices are private businesses who contract with the NHS to provide services. As a pp said, privately owned doesn’t mean not free at the point of delivery. We need to make it possible for our politicians to consider other models without being shouted down and it isn’t a binary choice between what we have now and “America”.

The government are doing their level best to run it into the ground. Once the continuing howls about lack of staff, queues, poor performance etc etc get loud enough they present privatisation as a fait accompli.

And those who will howl the loudest will those you voted Tory.

I agree a proper adult non political discussion is essential. NHS is a dinosaur and money pit atm and is no longer suited to the present day demographic.

It is abused by people day in, day out.

I think we should adopt models as used in Europe and Scandinavia - absolutely NOT the USA. There is no need to go from one extreme to the other.

Excuse sausage fingered typing

Totally agree.

Exactly. I’d rather pay for a GP visit than struggle to get one or feel like they’re doing me a favour if I actually get one.

A local practice is now running this system . My friends granny finds it confusing.

Following training with the health board last week we are now actively signposting as part of the new Care Navigation initiative which encourages people to use more appropriate health care providers depending on the problem.

These include minor injury departments, pharmacists and opticians, however we are still offering the same number of appointments for those who need a doctor, nurse or health care assistant for their problem. The hope is that this will free up some more appointments at the surgery and offer you, the patient, more freedom to access timely and appropriate advice and treatment.

The reception staff will ask you the nature of the problem and direct you based on your reply.

This initiative is in its infancy but should improve the speed at which you can receive treatment, but this may not be at the doctors surgery as it has historically been.

We will also soon be offering the ability to book appointments online via My Health Online. These appointments will include smears, immunisations, podiatry and phlebotomy.

As ever, we ask that you respect the receptionists whilst they do their job and although you may feel frustrated we will not tolerate any abuse of any kind towards our staff.

Yes. Lots of it already has been. What isn't talked about much is that often people are living much longer (ironically often due to previous NHS care and support) and often have a whole cocktail of serious simultaneous conditions that now require specialist care.

Twenty years ago when those 70 or 80 year olds were 50 or 60 and were voting in the Tories they didn't do much joining up of dots or have any concept of how much they might one day need the NHS. That applies even if they have private health insurance there are plenty of conditions and situations too expensive to be viable. You only have to look at America which will almost certainly be used as the template.

Why should you assume America would be the template rather than elsewhere?

There are many other systems between ours at one end and USA at the other !

In fact it makes less sense

Something needs to change. Due to family circumstances we’ve had lots of hospital admission over the past 18 years and the standard of care now is shocking.
Basic care is sometimes not delivered as standard. By basic I mean ensuring patients have meals/water/fluids, meds are given timely, accurate handovers taking place, help with basic hygiene etc etc

I have no doubt this is due to over stretched staffing levels more than anything but it’s not good enough.

I know personally four GPs doing private work but within BUPA, SPIRE. So you can't get hold of your own GP directly. That's frustrating because whoever contacts you doesn't have your medical history in front of them.