Are the days of WFH over?

[MerryMarigold]

Dh been working from home since Covid. Been 1 FtF meeting a week/ fortnight for past year.

Work have said everyone needs to be in work in central London for 3 days per week after Easter.

Not too bad for us, we live in the same place we lived before. Still a 1.5hr commute each way (plus associated costs). Not so good for others who live in the middle of nowhere.

Is this a trend or just his global company?

Some of you people need to realise people work to live not live to work. So fucking what if they’re painting their nails whilst on a teams call, or WFH allows them to do school drop offs. In fact the latter is bloody brilliant. There’s a whole life out there that isn’t dependent on sweating people for all they can give for 50 years before they retire and die. And I’m a boss.

Oh god I remember so so many occasions of systems going down when I was in the office in a call centre. At one point we had a week where the servers went down and then the BT phonelines went down, it was chaos

I also remember systems going down and having to take peoples names and numbers to call them back when the systems came back online, on top of answering all the normal calls.

Hardwired or not I've lost plenty of calls or had issues over time that haven't been my fault and were all when I was working in an office.

The evidence suggest greater productivity for wfh ... unless there is very weak management... do you really want to be admitting that !

We aren't global but we allow our employees spells of working abroad so long as our cyber security team okay the county (Russia for example would currently be on the no go list). We don't mind too much around time zone as long as they are willing to be present for most of the working day, we have people working hours between 7-3 and 10-6 anyway so as long as most of their hours fit into that sort of time that's fine with us

Its great because we have quite a few staff with family abroad so being able to work in Spain or the Caribbean for a few weeks and see your family at the same time is a real pull for them

Theoretically we’re supposed to be two days in per week. However, the majority of our staff are non contracted, making that difficult to enforce with them. That coupled with recruiting staff everywhere in the UK during the pandemic has meant they don’t really have a leg to stand on forcing the local ones in.

A young workforce with no peers to learn from in house can be less productive. Can you link the evidence please?

@midgemadgemodge it really depends on sectors and who's doing the surveys on productivity.

And I'd happily admit I'm not perfect, but managing a young workforce in the creative industry who want to work from home is an utter pain in the bum.

It's not to say I don't let them wfh but the work is better, more considered and delivered on time for the clients on the days they are in, it's a simple fact they thrive with senior teams supporting them with skills.

Honestly the IT / Digital / Tech / Marketing world would fall apart if they try and force people back to the office. Still super competitive for good people and the biggest sell is remote roles. I’ll never go back to the office on a schedule again.

This. I find that service has deteriorated since working from home became the norm. Trying to contact anyone in our local council is a nightmare. Also the number of times I have been told by various companies that someone will call me back and it doesn't happen.

Completely agree with this.

I was 22 when I started my current job and had the best time ever making friends and having brilliant nights out. Not to mention how much better you learn a job while being around others in person.

I'm now 37, settled down with 2 kids and have been WFH pretty much full time since covid (company asks us to do 1 day a month) and I love it. Suits me and my current life to a t.

BUT I feel really sorry for today's 22 year olds who will be missing out.

@BeatriceFranklin I'm giving my opinion on my own experience as a MD of 20 years spanning the creative industry. I don't need to link to evidence I'm living with it daily.

The junior creatives thrive with senior support and nurturing, they develop stronger creative ideas on the days they are part of a team and collaboration, if they want to work from home they can but there is a very clear divide between the ones that come in more in terms of skills and ideas.

Not for me, I got made redundant at the start of the pandemic and got my current job soon after, permanent home working, but then my company had a lot of home workers even pre pandemic. Hybrid model of 3/2 days in the office for the staff near the office but I am over 200 miles away. I love it but then the job lends itself really well to home working

In my industry it looks like hybrid working are becoming the norm. Probably depends on what you do as well, tech workers seem to be quite content at home 100%, but those whose jobs require networking or team building will find face to face interactions very useful. I also can't stress enough the value of office banter to young/new team members. We recruited two people at the same time, one lived near and came into the office 3 days a week, the other lived far away and has been struggling to come in due to rail strikes, so on average he was in only 0-2 days a week. After 6 months, the nearer one blended in well, knew various people across the business whom he met in the kitchen or canteen. The other one was a bit isolated and eventually resigned.

@Instagramearworms - Would you mind pm'ing me the company you work for? The app won't let me PM

I work fully remote but I am not being paid enough for what I do and I am seeking out other fully remote roles!

It's all about habits, motivation and whether you can really do the job at home.

If you have a job that is primarily about producing reports or written work, you can do that anywhere. If you've been bumming around at home with the tea and as @PomonaPomona would have it 'doing yourself with a dildo' (I didn't read that thread and this really made me laugh!) or chilling out and doing that for coming up to 3 years, it will be really really hard to suddenly think that you can be bothered with the hassle of a commute for lots of reasons

• need to get up earlier
• cost of transport
• hassle and unpleasantness of rush hour transport
• need to make an effort to look 'work' presentable
• cost of lunch/coffee/breakfast if you get it at work or hassle of sorting that out at home.
• dealing with arsehole colleagues and if you have an open plan office, listening to other people snorting, hawking up phlegm, sniffing, scratching, eating, complaining on the phone to their bf and all the other iiration that goes with office working

If you have any other option, why would you go back to all of that - unless you were really motivated.

Really motivated could mean anything from

• no other option because my current employer says I must or get fired and I'm too scared to look for another job -being offered ££££ that I won't get if I work at home -my work place is actually a great and fun place to be and I get a lot out of being there that I don't get from home.

I think a lot of people have just become cocooned in the joys of at home work laziness/easy life and don't want to go back. I used to have to get up frequently at 5am to get dressed, get a cab, get to a mainline station for a long 3 hour journey to do a job off site. I don't ever want to do that again. It's horrible.

Honestly the IT / Digital / Tech / Marketing world would fall apart if they try and force people back to the office. Still super competitive for good people and the biggest sell is remote roles. I’ll never go back to the office on a schedule again.

Wrong - it's happening already - tech companies are forcing people back to work in their droves - Disney & Amazon just backtracked spectacularly on this and their employees are livid but the companies holding firm & others are following suit.

Given large-scale redundancies in these industries, especially in the US, I think ending remote work is a cheaper way to make people redundant by stealth, too. People are welcome to leave if unable to continue WFH FT but they won't get a package and may struggle to find something else because the big companies have cut right back on new hires - even 'good people' aren't in much demand anymore

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20230206-the-companies-backtracking-on-flexible-work

I've found those that are in the office do get a bit put upon. Some of our work must have a wet signature before posting. Every day there will be a Zoom that says 'Please can see someone print, sign and post zyx?' Or 'I'm urgently waiting for X, can someone check if it came in the post today and scan it to me?'
There's probably loads of examples like that if I think if about it.

@BeatriceFranklin are you ok?

You do understand this is a forum where people are allowed to contribute to discussions.

I'm apologise that my position as a business owner offends you so much.

We were supposed to be in one day a week, now increased to two. No reason has been given - we’re a very dispersed company and I’m working with people across Europe so there’s no real benefit to being in the office.

I have come to an agreement to be in less than this as I’ve always said I cannot come to the office more regularly (over 2 hours each way door to door and £70) - otherwise I’d look for another job.

I think companies are limiting themselves and I love the Dutch changing their laws that you have the right to work fully remotely - to me, certainly in my area of work, there’s very little benefit to being in the office. I have worked in other industries where this was different (primarily creative ones). It does limit me somewhat though as I’m simply not prepared to commute to London more than twice a month (which hasn’t changed since Covid) and employment around here is pants.

Even pre-Covid, I have always allowed my team members to work remotely when I managed teams - don’t care when they do their work or how (obviously within reason, I.e being available for meetings when needed) as long as it gets done. No reason to not trust people, unless they gave me a reason to, which few ever did.

Let's hope so. Wfh full time is not good for anyone

I wish it would change. DP Dominates the living room all day while working, which means I am left with the kitchen and bedroom. I love it when he goes to work.

I think this depends on the set up you have at home. I work full time and paid for f/t childcare since my youngest was 8 mths old. I have my own office and I have it set up professionally so I can do my job perfectly. I switch my video on during virtual meetings, am available when I say I am, and am good at my job. I only go into the office to socialise and have fun with my colleagues once or twice a month and that’s more than enough for our CEO.

I agree.
And I’m sick of hearing people’s kids in the background when I’m trying to sort out my mortgage or discuss my car insurance or whatever. It happens so often - you say something, then hear some kids, then a pause, then the person you’re talking to asks you to repeat what you’ve said…..because they were busy telling the kids to be quiet or directing them to the after school snacks or whatever. I’m so fed up with it.

I regularly see posts on MN about people planning to WFH with a pre schooler, a toddler and a baby, and it drives me mad.

What a bizarre post. You do realise that if you’re being paid to work, then you really should be working?
I’m a GP. Is it OK if I only see 3 patients a day and spend the rest of the time shopping, hanging out with my kids, going on day trips, lunching with friends, bookings holidays etc? Because after all, I work to live, not live to work!! The tax payer can pick up the tab.