Page 9 | It’s a parking one…

MegsLevante · 2023-03-27T05:01:48+00:00

Builders have blocked off 6 free parking areas on our road with bollards. This is a public road and those spaces are used by the residents because not everyone has a drive. There has been a derelict house on the road for ages. One of the parking spaces is in front of this house but the other 5 aren’t. The house has been sold recently (no idea who to) and they have builders in. These builders have put bollards (last week) and now traffic lights on to block off these spaces. They have also left these bollards and traffic lights in place over the weekend when they aren’t doing any work. Are they allowed to do this on a public road? If they’ve got traffic lights, have they got the council involved, or can anyone put up traffic lights? Who do we complain to?

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:17

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 17:08

Nobody is saying that they will be allowed by the Council to keep putting cones out. But you could achieve your objective more easily by going over and talking about this instead of weaponising the Council. You still have that as a backup if they won’t engage. But you are clearly running your hands together in glee at the prospect of the Council sending someone round while you stand back and twitch your curtains.

You can just move cones anyway, it’s no big deal. But you do realise that they are perfectly entitled to block the spaces with vehicles, don’t you? By talking to them and seeking an amicable solution you at least have more chance of them not doing that.

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“Weaponising the council”? The council have rules and regulations in place to stop these builders behaving as they are. I’m sorry that you disagree with the council having rules and regulations in place.

And we are also entitled to park there and doing so will mean they have to park elsewhere. As long as no one parks across the house in question’s driveway then we would be doing absolutely nothing wrong by utilising the free parking bays on our road.

OP posts:

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:18

newnamenewmane · 27/03/2023 17:14

@jenandberrys hear hear! I bet the house will be put up for sale shortly after renovations have taken place based on the friendly neighbours and then they will all assume that it is builder who has only bought to flip the property and make a quick buck!

What a random comment.

OP posts:

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 17:21

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:17

“Weaponising the council”? The council have rules and regulations in place to stop these builders behaving as they are. I’m sorry that you disagree with the council having rules and regulations in place.

And we are also entitled to park there and doing so will mean they have to park elsewhere. As long as no one parks across the house in question’s driveway then we would be doing absolutely nothing wrong by utilising the free parking bays on our road.

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Well, unless you want to lose the use of your vehicle for the entire duration of the works, at some point you’ll have to move and a builder will be able to take the space.

i’m not sure how many more ways I can explain that I don’t disagree with the Council having rules. What I am saying is that you don’t need to go rushing off to make the Council enforce them in the first instance- a chat in which you amicably point out what the rules are, with a tacit threat to take it further, may be enough.

ScarletWitchM · 27/03/2023 17:34

Either:
1 - report to local authorities
2 - take the cones and park there
3 - put up / shut up

MoongazyHare · 27/03/2023 17:34

OP, might I ask: if you were to move house, and had ordered a big Pickfords van, how would you ensure the movers were able to park outside your house on moving day? Or your boiler needed replacing and a heating engineer needed to park outside your house for a couple of days?

A degree of give and take helps a community cohere.

You began this thread by conflating the use of the road by contractors doing gas works, with that of builders working at the property, and indicated that both were the fault of your new neighbours.

In the interests of neighbourhood harmony, which is what you seemed to say you wanted, you could have approached the issue of the builders’ reserving of parking spots by either talking to them directly, or simply moving their cones, rather than ramping things up and risking greater animosity by involving the local highways authority.

Now you have created an environment where the builders are likely to feel resentful, and your new neighbours will be aware that the locals are hostile to their work. Not a great way to start, is it? I hope you are more welcoming when they move in.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:45

MoongazyHare · 27/03/2023 17:34

OP, might I ask: if you were to move house, and had ordered a big Pickfords van, how would you ensure the movers were able to park outside your house on moving day? Or your boiler needed replacing and a heating engineer needed to park outside your house for a couple of days?

A degree of give and take helps a community cohere.

You began this thread by conflating the use of the road by contractors doing gas works, with that of builders working at the property, and indicated that both were the fault of your new neighbours.

In the interests of neighbourhood harmony, which is what you seemed to say you wanted, you could have approached the issue of the builders’ reserving of parking spots by either talking to them directly, or simply moving their cones, rather than ramping things up and risking greater animosity by involving the local highways authority.

Now you have created an environment where the builders are likely to feel resentful, and your new neighbours will be aware that the locals are hostile to their work. Not a great way to start, is it? I hope you are more welcoming when they move in.

Yes because a moving van showing up for the day is EXACTLY the same as the situation I’ve described. As is a single heating engineer being there for a few days. If I knew this was going to happen, I’d speak to the neighbours, as we always do (this information is in my other posts).

I should have foreseen that my neighbour would phone the council for advice, take the council’s advice on board and make a report to the council. I’m really sorry but I think my crystal ball is a bit faulty today and I didn’t know they were going to do this until I saw a message on WhatsApp stating that this is what they had done.

Give and take is a two way thing. The new owners / builders are taking but not giving.

OP posts:

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:47

ScarletWitchM · 27/03/2023 17:34

Either:
1 - report to local authorities
2 - take the cones and park there
3 - put up / shut up

Thanks for a sensible comment.

My neighbour phoned the council for advice and the council recommended that he makes a formal complaint. Which is what he has done.

OP posts:

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:51

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 17:21

Well, unless you want to lose the use of your vehicle for the entire duration of the works, at some point you’ll have to move and a builder will be able to take the space.

i’m not sure how many more ways I can explain that I don’t disagree with the Council having rules. What I am saying is that you don’t need to go rushing off to make the Council enforce them in the first instance- a chat in which you amicably point out what the rules are, with a tacit threat to take it further, may be enough.

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You don’t disagree with the council having rules and regulations but you think notifying the council that someone is breaching those rules and regulations is wrong?

Is it just this regulation that you think some people (but not all) should be able to ignore and not be penalised, or is it all council rules and regulations that you think should exist but not actually be enforced?

OP posts:

MoongazyHare · 27/03/2023 18:02

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:45

Yes because a moving van showing up for the day is EXACTLY the same as the situation I’ve described. As is a single heating engineer being there for a few days. If I knew this was going to happen, I’d speak to the neighbours, as we always do (this information is in my other posts).

I should have foreseen that my neighbour would phone the council for advice, take the council’s advice on board and make a report to the council. I’m really sorry but I think my crystal ball is a bit faulty today and I didn’t know they were going to do this until I saw a message on WhatsApp stating that this is what they had done.

Give and take is a two way thing. The new owners / builders are taking but not giving.

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Your requirement to reserve or create space for a moving van, for as long as it was needed, on a public road with no parking restrictions, would indeed be exactly the same as your neighbours’ builders need for parking spaces for the duration of their work. It is exactly alike in that you would need someone else to give up their space for your convenience. You would expect them to do so, as a neighbourly gesture.

Yes, the workers at your neighbours’ house are ‘taking’ just now, while they have work done, though you are doing your best to stop that. Which is fine, but I wouldn’t expect much ‘give’ when it’s your turn to need co-operation.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 18:07

MoongazyHare · 27/03/2023 18:02

Your requirement to reserve or create space for a moving van, for as long as it was needed, on a public road with no parking restrictions, would indeed be exactly the same as your neighbours’ builders need for parking spaces for the duration of their work. It is exactly alike in that you would need someone else to give up their space for your convenience. You would expect them to do so, as a neighbourly gesture.

Yes, the workers at your neighbours’ house are ‘taking’ just now, while they have work done, though you are doing your best to stop that. Which is fine, but I wouldn’t expect much ‘give’ when it’s your turn to need co-operation.

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It wouldn’t be a requirement to reserve or create space though. It would be a request that could be refused. It’s unlikely that it would be refused because (as stated several times) we have always managed parking amicably between us. Managing parking amicably between us could be termed “give and take”.

OP posts:

SirChenjins · 27/03/2023 18:08

Your requirement to reserve or create space for a moving van, for as long as it was needed, on a public road with no parking restrictions, would indeed be exactly the same as your neighbours’ builders need for parking spaces for the duration of their work

No it wouldn’t be the same. The OP said she would speak to her neighbours and explain the situation for the coming day or couple of days - and the neighbours could tell her to sling her hook or cooperate. What the OP wouldn’t do is put cones out for days/weeks on end to take up six spaces even when the removal lorry or heating engineer wasn’t present and not speak to the neighbours before she did it. There’s a massive difference.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 18:12

SirChenjins · 27/03/2023 18:08

Your requirement to reserve or create space for a moving van, for as long as it was needed, on a public road with no parking restrictions, would indeed be exactly the same as your neighbours’ builders need for parking spaces for the duration of their work

No it wouldn’t be the same. The OP said she would speak to her neighbours and explain the situation for the coming day or couple of days - and the neighbours could tell her to sling her hook or cooperate. What the OP wouldn’t do is put cones out for days/weeks on end to take up six spaces even when the removal lorry or heating engineer wasn’t present and not speak to the neighbours before she did it. There’s a massive difference.

Well, according to some posters I should put traffic cones out at least a week before the removal van / heating engineer are due to turn up and “reserve” at least twice as much space as I’ll actually need.

OP posts:

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 18:37

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 17:51

You don’t disagree with the council having rules and regulations but you think notifying the council that someone is breaching those rules and regulations is wrong?

Is it just this regulation that you think some people (but not all) should be able to ignore and not be penalised, or is it all council rules and regulations that you think should exist but not actually be enforced?

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Christ it’s like banging your head against a brick wall. I don’t think that it is wrong for the Council to enforce the rules. I have said that the Council could be asked to do that AFTER a civil conversation has taken place. Let me give you an example. If you have a legal claim against someone, it is standard practice to write them a letter first, saying “what you are doing/have done is unlawful. Please stop doing it/pay me compensation or I’ll have no option but to take you to Court”. What you don’t do is rush off to court and serve legal proceedings without talking first. In some areas of law the judges might even penalise a successful claimant by denying them costs if they didn’t try to sort things out more amicably first. It’s what civilised people do, especially if a longer term relationship is the context of the dispute.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 18:44

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 18:37

Christ it’s like banging your head against a brick wall. I don’t think that it is wrong for the Council to enforce the rules. I have said that the Council could be asked to do that AFTER a civil conversation has taken place. Let me give you an example. If you have a legal claim against someone, it is standard practice to write them a letter first, saying “what you are doing/have done is unlawful. Please stop doing it/pay me compensation or I’ll have no option but to take you to Court”. What you don’t do is rush off to court and serve legal proceedings without talking first. In some areas of law the judges might even penalise a successful claimant by denying them costs if they didn’t try to sort things out more amicably first. It’s what civilised people do, especially if a longer term relationship is the context of the dispute.

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Yes, reading your comments is very much like banging my head against a brick wall.

OP posts:

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 18:50

Are you hoping that the Council is somehow going to punish the builders for putting cones out last week? All they can do is warn them not to do it again and take action if they catch them in the act in future. You and your neighbours also now have the Council’s acknowledgement that you can move any future cones without fear of being sanctioned. But beyond that, you’re not going to get the “justice” you seek. What you are going to get is a whole load of bad feeling for being so heavy-handed.

I genuinely don’t understand why nobody is willing to TALK to the people involved.

BlackeyedSusan · 27/03/2023 19:23

The builders aren't around overnight? Surely you have a bit of a drunk student problem in your area and traffic cones can be relocated to the top of the local bus shelter?

They just "disappear" and you know nothing about it...and the neighbours saw nothing?

Callmenat · 27/03/2023 19:27

Op = Hyacinth Bucket

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 19:37

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 18:50

Are you hoping that the Council is somehow going to punish the builders for putting cones out last week? All they can do is warn them not to do it again and take action if they catch them in the act in future. You and your neighbours also now have the Council’s acknowledgement that you can move any future cones without fear of being sanctioned. But beyond that, you’re not going to get the “justice” you seek. What you are going to get is a whole load of bad feeling for being so heavy-handed.

I genuinely don’t understand why nobody is willing to TALK to the people involved.

Yes they can earn them not to do it again and fine them if they do it again. Lesson for the builders, hopefully it will teach them to be more considerate while working on this project and when working on future projects too.

Your language is very emotive for someone who isn’t being affected by the issue being discussed. Are you ok?

Also, the council won’t tell the owner or builder who reported them, if they actually say that anyone reported them at all. Disclosing who reported them would be a breach of personal information. A whole load of bad feeling from the new owners towards everyone in their neighbourhood (because they don’t know who reported them) - is that how you would behave towards all your neighbours when moving somewhere new? Personally I wouldn’t go out of my way to create anymore animosity from all my neighbours but appreciate you are different.

OP posts:

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 19:39

BlackeyedSusan · 27/03/2023 19:23

The builders aren't around overnight? Surely you have a bit of a drunk student problem in your area and traffic cones can be relocated to the top of the local bus shelter?

They just "disappear" and you know nothing about it...and the neighbours saw nothing?

Excellent idea 🤣

(And I think the neighbours would quite enjoy a drunk student moment too).

OP posts:

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 19:42

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 19:37

Yes they can earn them not to do it again and fine them if they do it again. Lesson for the builders, hopefully it will teach them to be more considerate while working on this project and when working on future projects too.

Your language is very emotive for someone who isn’t being affected by the issue being discussed. Are you ok?

Also, the council won’t tell the owner or builder who reported them, if they actually say that anyone reported them at all. Disclosing who reported them would be a breach of personal information. A whole load of bad feeling from the new owners towards everyone in their neighbourhood (because they don’t know who reported them) - is that how you would behave towards all your neighbours when moving somewhere new? Personally I wouldn’t go out of my way to create anymore animosity from all my neighbours but appreciate you are different.

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Please tell me what “emotive” language my last post contains?

And since you are now claiming that Personally I wouldn’t go out of my way to create anymore animosity from all my neighbours, perhaps go back and read again what I (and others) have said as you’re clearly not grasping it at all: by not talking to them, that is exactly what you are doing.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 19:51

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 19:42

Please tell me what “emotive” language my last post contains?

And since you are now claiming that Personally I wouldn’t go out of my way to create anymore animosity from all my neighbours, perhaps go back and read again what I (and others) have said as you’re clearly not grasping it at all: by not talking to them, that is exactly what you are doing.

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You're reading selectively because not everyone agrees with you. I haven’t reported them to the council (as I’ve stated several times) but appreciate you may have skipped that bit because it doesn’t suit your argument.

You also missed the bit where I stated that the current residents are cooperative, respectful and friendly. I’m not the one causing animosity. The new owners / builders have got everyone’s backs up by acting so rudely towards the current residents. I understand that this doesn’t suit your argument either.

OP posts:

SirChenjins · 27/03/2023 19:56

Why is it up to the OP to talk to the builders? If anything it was up to them or the owner/developer to speak to the neighbours to say ‘we’re going to be working here for a while and really need access for x period, but we’ll minimise the disruption caused’ - not arrive, block off 6 spaces for days/nights on end with cones (that they have no legal right to do as they will well know), and expect the neighbours to go cap in hand and say ‘ please sir, if it’s not too much trouble, could you abide by the rules of the public highway please and thank you?’

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 19:57

Seriously, going out and talking to the builders would be a much better use of your time than trying to win some sort of imagined argument with me. But no worries, the Council will swoop down like Batman and sort it all out for you all.

Original poster

MegsLevante · 27/03/2023 20:05

NeverApologiseNeverExplain · 27/03/2023 19:57

Seriously, going out and talking to the builders would be a much better use of your time than trying to win some sort of imagined argument with me. But no worries, the Council will swoop down like Batman and sort it all out for you all.

There you go, emotive language again. The council won’t “swoop down like Batman”. The council will speak to them, warn them not to do it again (which should be enough to stop them doing it) and probably fine them and issue them with a formal warning if they do it again.

OP posts:

ArmWrestlingWithChasNDave · 27/03/2023 20:12

I love a snippy OP with a faithful-dog-like poster barking at everybody who disagrees with her. It's great entertainment!

It’s a parking one…

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