Can people who don't have a Degree or have the intelligence to gain one be successful?

[UrbanMan27]

Hi,

Im just wondering does not having a Degree or having high enough intelligence to get one make you a failure? As I feel like Society makes people feel without a Degree like a failure and that they'll be working jobs and not having a career in such jobs as working on minimum wage or just above for the rest of their lives.

What's your thoughts?

You definitely don’t need intelligence to get a degree. I’ve worked with far smarter people who don’t have degrees. DH didn’t even finish 6th form and he has a very successful professional career and high salary

Pressed send too soon.
I think that 'failure' is subjective anyway. Some of the best people I know have great lives, happy families snd good health but not so much financial success.

Emotional intelligence is much more valued than it used to be. The current reality programme celebrity culture certainly doesn't brand the participants as failures, and most of those shows don't seem to attract graduates.

OP how do you define not intelligent enough to get one?

There is a difference between perceived 'intelligence' and being 'acedemic'. I have been taught by highly accomplished academics who have zero common sense.

My DH is dyslexic and not academic. He is highly intelligent and successful.

@UrbanMan27

No degrees in my household and between me and dh we earn in the top earning bracket.

What's your point op?

Degrees don't mark someone's intelligence or skill set

So you believe that how hard someone works directly correlates to their gcse/A level grades? That shows a huge lack of understanding TBH. You may know some people who dossed about and got EEEs however the people I know who got low grades had other reasons for this but absolutely excelled at uni (obv not Cambridge due to their grades) and luckily their employers recognised how good they were in their field and are now doing extremely well in their careers. So potentially there is a good reason to look further than what some consider a 'top' degree.

Intelligence to me would include seeing the wider picture and understanding that different people excel/are intelligent in different ways, being good at exams is not the measure of Intelligence. My DS1 literally breezes through exams, no need to revise particularly, DS2 has some SEN, he hasto work 10 times harder to get average grades. He is very intelligent still though. I hope that people can see passed the 4-6 grades he will probably achieve at school and see how hard working and intelligent he is, and how well he will do in the right job/right way of learning for him.

I’d probably put myself in the ‘not intelligent enough for a degree’ camp but I do think I’m clever. I’m just not academic and hated school.

I have reasonable a levels and started at the bottom as a junior instead. I’ve just been made director and am earning ££.

Im happy with my choice and anecdotally I find the uni grads at the moment seriously lacking in common sense and drive compared to the apprentices.

There's a huge difference between intelligence and being educated. I know lots of dumb graduates and the most intelligent person I ever met had no qualifications at all. Sometimes it all comes down to plain old luck.

I have a degree and 3 post grad qualifications - 2 of them very specialist. I earn 32k a year 🤣

This is a standard amount of training and a standard salary for my field. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with less education earning more than me. Degree does not equal success, and the inverse is true as well.

I 'only' have a foundation degree and that's because it was a part of the on-the-job training in my old job, so it was quite different to how you'd go about getting a regular degree.

I went on to become self employed in an industry that requires zero qualification of any sort and am significantly more successful (if we're defining success in monetary terms) than I ever could have been in my job requiring a foundation degree.

So yes. In fact I would argue some of the most lucrative careers don't require degrees.

To add to my post, I like doing academic work - I'm good at it and it suits me. Some of us are just well suited to doing degrees, it's not that hard for some people. This doesn't mean that someone is more intelligent, it's just a specific skill set and interest they some people have.

Of course OP! I agree with you, a wide range of talents and abilities should be appreciated and supported far more than they are.

When I left school at 16 in the 70s very few had degrees a lot of these people will have been very successful.

Lol Bill Gates had every privilege of being a white male from a well connected wealthy family.

He was private school educated, scored nearly perfect on SAT scores, was accepted into Harvard and attended 2 years.

He truly doesn't fit the typical "dropout" who doesn't have all the privileges gates had.

there are different types of intelligence ,
Not just academic one, !

So yes of course you can be successful in whatever field you are motivated driven and have right kinds of supportive influences and the key one most of all have
Appitude( potential) at.

☺️☺️

One of my best friends earns around £25,000 max PA, at a guess. Masters and Phd. He might have earned more if he'd stayed in a related field, but the job he does now (customer service and admin) he could have gone straight into post GCSE. If he's happy and financially comfortable, which he is, that's the main thing.

Though I think of his parents who made real financial sacrifices to support him in postgraduate studies, including a remortgage and an old car, and unable to make house repairs.

Yes. Our HOD of a large multi million £ company only has a couple of GCSEs.

Nope, I don’t believe that, but neither do I believe that everyone with poor grades worked harder for them than everyone with good grades, or than anyone gets a first from Cambridge without “knowing how to apply themselves”.

The person I was replying to was making the ridiculous absolutist statement that everyone with a low ranked degree knows the value of hard work and nobody from Cambridge does - I was pointing out I know a lot of counterexamples.

Fair enough, sorry. I am quite defensive of this as have to live it on a daily basis with regards to my DS2. There will be examples where people will find it easy to get a 1st at Cambridge without having to work harder than someone getting a 2:1 from a 'lesser' uni and vice versa of course.

I think there's a difference between not having a degree and not having the intelligence to get it.
IMO most people who succeeded with no degree would have been very capable of achieving one but chose not to/ had certain circumstances, etc.

There's far too much emphasis on degrees and has been for too any decades. Why this nation values a degree from a former poly (and I don't mean practical/vocational degrees in pharmacy, electrical/mechanical engineering, etc) more highly than technical and/or vocational qualifications I shall never know.

I also don't think it helps to conflate intelligence with academic ability or more imortantly, support.

Step left school at 15. Served an apprenticeship in carpentry and then one in French polishing because he loved wood. He had a specialist building trades firm and lots of contracts with English Heritage, etc. He usually had at least 20 men working for him and dabbled in antiques too both as a restorer and an investor. He will read reference books but not a novel and he doesn't write except notes for a quote. Mother did all his paperwork. I suspect he has undiagnosed and severe dyslexia and would never admit to it. He made a great deal of money.

I dropped out of uni in 1978! No degree obviously. I then did a cookery course, secretarial course, spent some time in Europe. When I returned I got a junior job on a syndicate desk and was selling Eurobonds within three years. By the time I was 30 I had a house in London and a small mortgage. It funded seven years off with the children after I was married. When I went back to work I got some professional qualifications, exceptionally because I had no degree, and then did a Masters.

The UK very sadly places far too little importance on the vocational trades which often extrapolate to people running small businesses and becoming employers. We should value those people and trades far more highly and accept the fact that many of those involved in them earn far more than nurses, teachers and policemen, etc. Where they don't do as well is in the context of paid holiday, paid sick pay, 100% paid mat leave and pensions. It's vital they have critical I'll health insurance.

Where would we be without:

Hairdressers
Mechanics
Plumbers
Electricians
Builders
Carpenters
Dry cleaners, etc

We need to value all those trades far more highly and that value needs to start in early years' education. I have met far too many teachers, including MIL, who are a bit sneery about them.

I suppose you all would see a doctor with no degree if you thought him/her clever.

That's not really the same thing. Medical school, or equivalent, training is necessary.

I have a degree, yet I failed my 11+. Neither of these measures intelligence as such. In the workplace there are many important attributes to bring to the table, including being hard working, motivated, committed, able to work as a team, leadership and management skills, etc.

My DH doesn't have a degree... I'm not sure I would say he doesn't have the intelligence not to get one but I do believe he hasn't got the patience, concentration, inclination or set of skills requited to get one....

....but he is an extremely successful, accomplished and greatly in demand builder.

A degree is a measure by which you can be judged. It says to industry and others that you've achieved this level. Yes it can open easier doors in life. That's it.

In my experience those determined to get on in life so extremely well. I'd say especially those without the means to get a degree. I've know many now. Many really wealthy people all self made and proud. I'd easy estimate incomes of £200k+

Whereas those who had the privilege of university are middling, on £30-£75k. Happy with their choices but not as driven or determined.

It completely depends on the person and the determination. Sometimes the lack of a degree fuels this determination.