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Bbc ‘Ghost children’

30 replies

D0tty · 22/03/2023 17:56

An article about ‘ghost children’ failing to attend school. An article which fails to acknowledge that home is the often safe haven and school the safeguarding issue. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65031051

Contextual safeguarding is key https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bCFZQcaIgDM

Terri White

Terri White: How I fear for the 'ghost children' missing from school

The journalist and broadcaster has been investigating why 140,000 children are "severely absent" from school.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65031051

OP posts:
Boogersandsnot · 22/03/2023 18:03

Home is my children’s safe space. School destroyed them. These articles are always very one sided and go along the rhetoric ‘the best place for children is school’

gogohmm · 22/03/2023 18:13

@Boogersandsnot

For some children it's the exact opposite. I have an adult friend who received no education at all as a child, she taught herself to read as the house did have books but her parents we hippies who didn't believe in formal education. Try getting a job with no qualifications???

OxygenthiefexH · 22/03/2023 18:17

I think home edders are amazing. And yet I can also think of one family who have deliberately done everything they can to keep one child well under the radar. I have my suspicions why. If he was in school, there would be another set of eyes on his life, that he really needs, IMO.

D0tty · 22/03/2023 18:27

Boogersandsnot · 22/03/2023 18:03

Home is my children’s safe space. School destroyed them. These articles are always very one sided and go along the rhetoric ‘the best place for children is school’

This is my kids experience too. Home is their safe place. School is far from balanced or safe, its dog eat dog world sadly.

I can’t home Ed due to work. However I know 6 home edders and they all do it very differently - some super academic, some more creative. Regardless all approaches are child centred and child wellbeing led.

OP posts:
Highlyflavouredgravy · 22/03/2023 18:32

I k now one child who is going to be home educated for secondary. Despite the dact that throuhhout primary his fsmily have never read a reading book., Done maths homework, done ANY homework. During lockdown. Nothing happened.
His parents don't atrend meetings or parents evenings.
How much education is gojng to be happening in that home?

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 22/03/2023 18:34

DS is one of the ghost children. He was having some problems at school due to ASD. And just did a lot better at home over the lockdown. So we didn't send him back.

I've met loads of families like ours in the Home Ed Community. Including quite a few who are in the heartbreaking process of a wanted school placement breaking down. They don't want to Home Ed but thats what they'll probably end up doing. Because school isn't meeting their child's needs.

To get kids like DS back in school you would either need a massive expansion of the special school system. Or you would need massive changes to mainstream schools in order to make them genuinely inclusive.

(I don't think, for example, that you can do genuine inclusively at the same time as being very results driven. That's extremely stressful for a kid who knows that they are unable to perform to the same speed, level or manner expected.)

Having said that, I do think a register of kids not attending school is a good idea. We need some way to keep track of children and make sure they are safe.

I just think it should go alongside better provision for SEN.

Helpwhatwouldyoudonext · 22/03/2023 18:37

But home ed children are NOT ghost children - they are registered as having home ed!
Ghost children are those on the school roll who don't regularly attend. The reasons for this are myriad, and like an earlier poster said, it is valuable for a child to have multiple adults in their life for many reasons. No- one can get everything they need from a single adult.

LIZS · 22/03/2023 18:40

Unfortunately for some "ghost" children home is not a safe space - abused, exploited, neglected, young carers. Sad

Thesearmsofmine · 22/03/2023 18:41

I wish they would separate children who are being home educated with children who are registered at school but not attending. There is a big difference and they seem to be combining both groups.

Iam4eels · 22/03/2023 18:44

OxygenthiefexH · 22/03/2023 18:17

I think home edders are amazing. And yet I can also think of one family who have deliberately done everything they can to keep one child well under the radar. I have my suspicions why. If he was in school, there would be another set of eyes on his life, that he really needs, IMO.

Please report it via the safeguarding team at your local council, if you think a child is at risk then that call could make the difference between them getting appropriate support or being left in a situation where they could come to harm.

JorisBonson · 22/03/2023 18:46

LIZS · 22/03/2023 18:40

Unfortunately for some "ghost" children home is not a safe space - abused, exploited, neglected, young carers. Sad

This. Terri White is saying that her home life was so dreadful that school was a safe place for her. This is what the article and series is about.

OutwiththeOutCrowd · 22/03/2023 18:46

I think the pandemic has highlighted that children's personal circumstances can be very different and I don't see why we can't have an education system that is more flexible and accommodating to reflect that.

My own DS loved remote learning. He would have liked to meet up with classmates in person occasionally but didn't feel it was necessary every school day as he could stay in touch with them online. He was so much happier and learnt more effectively at home. He had found the atmosphere in 'proper' school stressful at times and it was a revelation to see how much more content he was.

I do understand that it would be difficult or inappropriate for some families but it would be nice if a certain amount of homeschooling (maybe a hybrid system) wasn't seen as a niche choice.

We've moved on from just having flat white coffees to all sorts of combinations. Why not the same for education?

Thesearmsofmine · 22/03/2023 18:46

OxygenthiefexH · 22/03/2023 18:17

I think home edders are amazing. And yet I can also think of one family who have deliberately done everything they can to keep one child well under the radar. I have my suspicions why. If he was in school, there would be another set of eyes on his life, that he really needs, IMO.

Surely you have reported your concerns if you think a child is at risk?

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 22/03/2023 18:49

"I k now one child who is going to be home educated for secondary. Despite the dact that throuhhout primary his fsmily have never read a reading book., Done maths homework, done ANY homework. During lockdown. Nothing happened.
His parents don't atrend meetings or parents evenings.
How much education is gojng to be happening in that home?"

Tbf, we would have looked similar to that. DS was far too burned out by school to do anything in the evening.
And lockdown work was uninteresting and not appropriately differentiated.

OxygenthiefexH · 22/03/2023 19:09

I didn’t report, no. But I certainly DID consider it very very carefully including to what degree there was likely anything that would cross the threshold of “harm” and I took professional advice on it. Interestingly he actually is in school now, so that’s something, but the efforts his parents went to, to keep him away from diagnosis and labels, was immense. What resulted was a totally unboundaried and yet isolated child. No abuse, but certainly behaviour which seemed skewed, and he didn’t appear to be patented in any meaningful way whatsoever. And I’m fully aware of Radical Unschool etc and this was way way beyond this.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 22/03/2023 19:58

There's a whole world of technicalities involved in calculating the figures - the increase could also be partly attributable to the fact that there were no definitive records kept prior to the pandemic. There was no centralised database - the Local Government Association estimated the number before Covid as being 250,000, far in excess of the amount she is quoting, but also said that it could be far higher.

The attempts to quantify the true number will have involved healthcare records, child benefit claims, birth registrations, local authorities having to investigate and trace parental financial transactions and passport use, trying to get private schools to participate, hoping that EHE parents agree to notify their LA (which they are not required to do and plenty refuse), getting school staff who may not have any experience and nobody to show them how to use the archaic technology that serves as notification, LA staff who may not know how the multiple systems work - and there is also the added complication that this can be used as a political tool (such as the thinktank she is using for her article).

In short, nobody knows how many children there are in the UK and nobody knows how many were missing before or how many are missing now. And then reason why? Because when it was previously tried, it was abandoned as being too huge a task to retrospectively introduce.

However, it is not being ignored. There's huge amounts of work being done to try and create records and monitor things in real time. But it takes huge amounts of time for even the children they know exist - a single referral takes around 2 hours to process before it's even submitted. The hours involved for a caseworker dealing with one child is ridiculous. There isn't the funding, the hours in the day, willingness, technology or capacity on the part of some schools, the infrastructure to do it - but they're expected to try and make a Herculean task work with a few spreadsheets, email and assorted archaic portals.

She writes very emotively. None of that addresses the fact that money is needed. Real money - not just for IT, but for the many thousands of hours' work this entails, starting right at the point of being able to afford the salaries of people to do the work.

SmallandSpanish · 22/03/2023 20:09

This is why I home Ed. This book says it all. Peer culture and why parents need to matter more than peers because peers are not good role models is helpful and terrifying in equal measure. I like this ted talk but for me it's not about the stairwells or school corridors. It's about the relationships that dominate our children's lives.

https://www.googleadservices.com/pagead/aclk?sa=L&ai=DChcSEwjQ9tSjqvD9AhVY7O0KHeLoC10YABAMGgJkZw&ohost=www.google.co.uk&cid=CAESaeD2zRixeFbo7Ggudm1S9kLp4L4Nb2shGxP6bMMq4uzyCapFIn7R9v-uczfv9F44gRGS5JNpiyubsDLhTDbeHvjhwXjbLHYikRO7DCLlobbzaTsr4l5X945XmCQCl1KrLhcDgwBJgJ7Ww&sig=AOD6443-xX4LLcmrD69rdtCLxxaXveA4g&ctype=5&q=&ved=2ahUKEwiikc6jqvD9AhVZilwKHcQyBRYQwg8oAHoECAUQEg&adurl=

SmallandSpanish · 22/03/2023 20:12

Hold on to Your Kids: Why Parents Need to Matter More Than Peers (Paperback)
Gabor Mate (author), Gordon Neufeld (author)

Itstarts · 22/03/2023 20:15

Boogersandsnot · 22/03/2023 18:03

Home is my children’s safe space. School destroyed them. These articles are always very one sided and go along the rhetoric ‘the best place for children is school’

Presumably your children are still "seen" though. By drs when needed, HV if young enough, registered as home Ed etc.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 22/03/2023 20:26

The problem with Home Ed is that kids get seen, at the discretion of the parent.
DS goes to a number of afterschool clubs and home ed meets so people see him.
If I stopped sending him, no-one would particularly notice or care.
Its very easy for kids to slip through the cracks.

Dumdumbetterrunrun · 22/03/2023 21:22

It seems to me like it's very clear cut. Unfortunately there will always be parents who abuse their children. The difference is that the abused children who go to school will see multiple professionals who may notice the abuse every day. This is more likely to mean someone picks up on the abuse, obviously it can be missed too.
So it's not that there are necessarily more children who are home educated being abused, it's that it's a very easy way of hiding your child from the authorities.

If you home educate and you're reading this and thinking 'that's not us, we don't do that', you are deflecting attention from the real issue which is that these kids need to be registered and checked on regularly in some way by some sort of medical or educational professional. Yes, YOU could be doing everything right but it's worrying that other people can hide their children essentially forever.

Saltywalruss · 22/03/2023 21:24

OxygenthiefexH · 22/03/2023 18:17

I think home edders are amazing. And yet I can also think of one family who have deliberately done everything they can to keep one child well under the radar. I have my suspicions why. If he was in school, there would be another set of eyes on his life, that he really needs, IMO.

Have you reported this family to SS?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 22/03/2023 21:24

Here's an article from 2006 talking about the issue - as you will see, there was no consistent recording http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5412896.stm

2005 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/4134810.stm

Here's one from 2013 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21382286

2016 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-38145058

2016 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36734441

Every article refers to the lack of tracking. If you don't know how many there should be, you don't know how many have left the country, you don't know if they're EHE or in unregistered schools or waiting for adequate provision due to being unable to either get an EHCP or have the places provided, when numbers in Alternative Provision hasn't formed part of the school census until January of this year, how can you hope to have accurate figures to compare?

Ofsted: Missing children data 'worrying'

There is a "worrying" lack of reliable data on missing children in England, Ofsted's chief inspector Sir Michael Wilshaw has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-21382286

NeverDropYourMooncup · 22/03/2023 21:26

Itstarts · 22/03/2023 20:15

Presumably your children are still "seen" though. By drs when needed, HV if young enough, registered as home Ed etc.

There's no legal requirement for parents to register their children as EHE. It's purely at their discretion - and a right that many EHE families will be very vocal about retaining.