"Some six year olds have never seen a toothbrush"

[SuperGinger]

Just saw an article on the BBC website about this, very sad you need your teeth for the rest of your life and we are failing our children.

Why aren't they investing in children we are storing up so many problems for the future? Especially with poor diets many children have.

This is a fair overview of controversy over fluoridation en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation_controversy

@TheFormidableMrsC It will be because they dont think it matters, or the child cries and gets upset so they dont force it and just think they cant make them.

Because the minute he tried, GD would be whisked off to Poland never to be seen again.

I haven't heard of this - but how brilliant and proactive.

I’m guessing because it’s not always to do with money but effort and one is easier than the other.

And many dc have not seen a dentist either because there is a massive shortage

Quite possibly. However, as a parent I don't understand it. I've taken great care of my children's teeth. Indeed I didn't have a single filling myself until I was in my 30's. It's as basic as keeping them clean and fed in my view.

And some parents think I'm weird because I taught my 2 year old to floss. 🤨

Wow. Even if the fluoride conspiracy is true. There are still huge benefits to brushing with a dry toothbrush. There is even fluoride free toothpaste. So this is still down to lazy neglectful parenting.

Fluoride helps , however you can brush your teeth 27 times a day but if you are eating sugar/starchy foods multiple times a day ie snacking and/or grazing you will still get decay.

We did have an NHS dentist but they all went private and we can't find another, not even for my child only. If nothing is going to be done to increase the number of NHS dentists then I think children from lower income families should be prioritised over current patients somehow. Of course everyone should be able to access an NHS dentist but there simply aren't enough.

The government aren't to blame for this. Feckless parents are.

What may partly explain that is that there was a bit of a scandal a good few years ago (70s/80s?) with dentists drilling and filling childrens teeth because they knew that they'd get paid for it. My dentist told me that all my amalgam fillings were really shallow so that's what had happened to me. I've had them all taken out and changed for white ones.

Ive always brushed my teeth twice a day and never really had sweets or fizzy drinks.

Birmingham is NOT naturally fluoridated

How on earth do you find out if your water has fluoride added? I’m with Severn Trent but can’t seem to find the answer!

@torquewench

It went on all the way up until the early 2000's so approximately 1960s-2002 a lot of unnecessary fillings. Ironically this pay per treatment made it affordable for dentists to offer NHS treatment, because it cost and took roughly the same time to fill one tooth that needed a deep filling, as it did to do multiple shallow fillings. But because they were paid per filling not per patient they saw, it was financially advantageous for them to fill as many teeth as possible, and this made NHS treatment profitable. So the dentists who were over filing teeth were the ones who could afford to have a big NHS patient list. These 'preventative' fillings have now been removed, but unfortunately it has also contributed to NHS dentistry becoming unaffordable for most dentists. Now NHS treatment runs at a loss for dentists, because the treatments are less (eg. One filling only when really necessary, not multiple that are unnecessary), and they are paid per NHS patient but not enough to cover the cost of seeing patients who don't need treatment, and then there are the additional costs with disinfection and PPE made worse by covid that means that a lot of dentists can't afford to treat NHS patients, or those that can limit it to only children with paying parents, or similar arrangements. Otherwise their business becomes unprofitable, and they go do something else which is profitable be that cosmetic dentistry or increasingly crossing over into areas like Botox/ fillers which are much more profitable.

I'm in England, NW. When my child was in primary I think year 5 so 2 years ago the whole school were sent home with a toothbrush & tube of toothpaste in a packet. It also had a little booklet with it. I thought it was brilliant idea.

My apologies Birmingham was amongst first areas fluoridated in 60s.
Here is map with fluoride levels in U.K. water www.discoverwater.co.uk/fluoride

It happened in my daughters school in the North West. All the pupils got a little packet with toothbrush & paste. Never had a dentist visit the school though.

@MissyB1

Severn Trent add fluoride to the water when it drops below 1 part per million (I'm not sure if this is adequate to prevent dental issues or not sorry!)
The amount of the area which is not naturally fluoridated can change over time, but they estimate that it's usually around 45% of their water which is fluoridated in this way.
They recommended testing your water using water testing strips for fluoride if you're concerned about the fluoride level

Has this been reported to SS

In Blackpool it does. We also have dentist places for children being sorted

Just to add we aren't in a deprived area either and I did think it was odd when I heard the whole school came home with toothbrushes and paste but thought it was a good idea for the kids who don't have access to toothbrushes. We donated ours to a food bank.

Thanks @Pinacalola

Actually no.
Teaching of dentistry and materials has changed immensely over the last few decades.
Years ago dentists were taught that any amount of decay, however small , had to be removed entirely . Moreover they were taught "extension for prevention" in other words to make fillings larger to cover areas that were thought would decay anyway.
As materials and knowledge became better it was realised that very early decay could be reversed with a change in diet and application of fluoride. Advances in materials , including glass ionomer which leach out fluoride , and composites which are sticky meant fillings could be made smaller and less deep.
Moreover the introduction , in the U.K. , of fluoride toothpaste in the 1970s meant , until recently , that people born from the mid 70s onwards had less fillings.
The new contract in 2006 actually meant doing any treatment was becoming financially difficult because you were paid the same for one filling as ten fillings and root treatments. However even more than that the funding has in real terms decreased by around 30% since 2006. Dentistry has become ever more expensive to provide eg a room in a surgery costs £120 an hour to run in even a cheap area and the average spend per year per patients treated is , including patient charges from £28 to £38 .
A 5ml bottle of glue to hold in a white composite filling costs £90 on its own.

Dental nurses did not used to be registered now they have to pay registration and indemnity.

Indemnity (malpractice insurance) has massively increased because you are more likely to be sued as a dentist in the U.K. than anywhere else in the world.

costs have risen astronomically and funding from government has not kept pace with that for decades.