DS volunteering part time for 2 months

[MarnieDg]

My son was at college but had alot of mental health issues. He really struggled.

After he went missing instead of going to College I decided to pull him out. He ended up spending months at home not doing much but he had counselling.

He got in touch with a charity to try and help him find what to do next.

He was asked what he might like to do. He said XYZ.

He had no qualifications in XYZ so he asked around about getting some voluntary experience.

A place took him up and said that once he had some hours of experience underbhisnbelt he could get a paid position and training.

He's been there 2 months, doing 6 hours a day, 4 days a week.

I got a letter from HMRC a few days ago asking what benefits is DS on? Does he work? How is he supporting himself?

He's not. I am. And I'm on ESA myself for poor health.

My rent has also gone up £40 a month and I have to pay an extra £100 now that he is not classed as a dependent anymore.

I'm just thinking are they taking the piss now? Is 2 months doing 24 hours a week not enough voluntary work?

Please don't just say 'tell him to get another job' it's taken a long time to find something he likes to do and as long as he is out of the house and socialising I'm happy.

But it would be nice for him to have his own money!

Sorry, the letter made me think that he should really be earning his own wage now and I looked what date he started and thought, 2 months is a long time!

Obviously there's nothing I can do but I was just wondering if you were told at 18 that you would do some volunteering before getting paid how long would you expect to do that for?

I would say after 2months of volunteering that regularly, they should know whether they want to employ him for a wage.
If it’s solely a volunteering opportunity then he probably needs to look for paid employment elsewhere.
If they have suggested it will lead to paid employment then I think they are taking the piss a bit now after that many hours.

Maybe they are waiting for a paid vacancy to come up. Is it possible they are fully staffed and would have to create a post which they are not able to at this time?

Well, it's hard to say. Was he actually promised a job at the end of the volunteering, and if so, what timescale was specified? Or were there specific standards that he would need to meet and has he met them? Or did they just indicate that volunteering would be a good way to get experience that might lead to paid opportunities in the future? If he has no qualifications or work experience to speak of, two months of part time work isn't much at all, so I think it's a bit much to expect that it will lead to a job so quickly, unless he was specifically told that he would be earning by now. He might be adding a bit of value to the organisation as a volunteer, but probably not enough value at this stage to warrant them paying him. As a charity, they will have obligations to their funders to use their resources well, and paying a relatively unskilled teenager might be rather hard to justify. We also don't know if he has been a quick learner, how he has interacted with colleagues etc. The way the charity probably sees it is that they are offering him a much-needed opportunity for him to develop basic employability skills, and they may well perceive it as them doing him a favour rather than him really adding value for them. Certainly, that has been my experience with young, inexperienced and relatively unskilled workers - it takes a lot of management time to support, mentor and supervise them, so I don't ever regard it as free labour. As to how long he should expect to volunteer before getting paid work, it really depends on what was discussed at the outset. Personally, I would never promise that volunteering would lead to paid work, though I might indicate if there was a possibility of this. There are just too many unknown factors. That said, I wouldn't realistically expect an unskilled, unqualified and inexperienced teenager to be of much real use to my organisation until they had been volunteering for at least 6 months or so, maybe longer - especially if they were only doing it part time. Volunteering shouldn't be regarded as some kind of extended unpaid trial shift imo. That isn't what it is about. Many people do it for months or even years without any expectation of employment at the end of it - they do it because they enjoy it, because they value the cause, or because of the opportunities that it gives them to develop their own knowledge and skills. So no, I don't think the charity is taking the piss in the slightest, unless they explicitly led your ds to believe that he would be in paid work by now as a result of it. What skills and experience does he feel that he has acquired through the volunteering to date? Can he articulate these? If not, can you help him to reflect on this?He could try asking the current charity if there are any vacancies coming up that he might be suitable for, but realistically, he shouldn't expect this, especially after such a short period. If they say he isn't ready yet, he could perhaps ask them to outline what skills and competences he might need to develop in order to be employable in a paid role at some point in the future, so that he knows what he needs to work towards. Ultimately, though, I do think he needs to be prepared to use what he has learned to secure a job elsewhere... even if it's only a part time one in the first instance so that he can carry on volunteering if he wishes. Or he could try toclaim any benefits to which he might be entitled and start at least looking for paid employment elsewhere?

Sorry, had paragraphs in my post originally... they seem to have disappeared!

Thanks for the replies.

It was definitely put to him that there would be a paid position but they couldn't just employ him off the streets with no qualifications or experience so volunteering would be a bridge to that.

I was so happy he found something to do I didn't question it too much.

And the issue is his confidence is still low so I don't think he would ask them himself and now that he's an adult I obviously can't do it for him (even though I did have a hand in finding him the placement as I had a friend who works there)

Sorry, he's not volunteering for a charity.

He had the help of a charity in doing his CV, looking for openings etc, when he left college.

The place he is working for is a business.

I think if he is volunteering in a business that is definitely taking advantage of him.

However as you are already aware it is beneficial to him in other ways so I would Fred carefully in trying to move him into a paid role and maybe see if you can line up something similar somewhere else now he has experience. That way he will have a plan B if they won't agree to pay him.

Tred nor fred 🙈

It's a childcare setting. So they said they can help him with an NVQ etc. But wanted to make sure he's good with the kids and such.

He's gotten really good feedback and the kids LOVE him, they said there not many males in the role so the kids really enjoy having him about.

He does the under 5s and also the after school club.

OK, I think that changes things. I am fine with the idea of a business giving unpaid work experience opportunities but I would expect these to be fairly short - otherwise they are exploiting people for their own profit. Very different to a charity with limited resources, a clear social benefit andan established culture of volunteering.

Would he really be too lacking in confidence to ask about timescale? Could you help him draft an email asking about this? Does he have anything in writing from the company that makes it clear that he will get a job at the end of it?

Yes I don't wnat to rock it as he's happy there but he can't volunteer forever and I think having his own income would help alot with his MH.

OK, so I guess it probably depends on whether they feel that he is competent enough yet to count him as a member of staff in their ratios. If they are counting him, then they should absolutely be paying him! If they don't feel that they are able to count him yet, then I can see why they might not feel able to pay him. Not sure how you could find that out though...I guess your ds could count up the number of staff and check the ratios in relation to the number of children?

I think the only way through this is really for your ds to pluck up the courage to ask. If he doesn't want to ask about a job per se, could he at least ask about maybe starting the NVQ that they mentioned?

Well it sounds like they're not going to pay him while he's happily working there for free...I think he needs to ask how they think he's doing, if there are any issues with his work and at what point they will be looking at making it a paid position.

He shouldn't allow them to take the piss, if they say they don't know when they will be able to pay him then I think he needs to start looking for similar paid work elsewhere at the same time.

I've got a feeling that this sort of thing where you just work voluntarily for a business may even be illegal (outside of work experience) - if you've been told that there will be a job in the future then I think you have to be paid minimum wage for what you're doing.

I think you need to support him in moving this forward or looking for something else that is similar but paid.

He is an intern, and there's no guarantee of a paid position. But if I were the employer, I would expect a lot more commitment than only 2 months before deciding to employ someone. Your son needs to start applying for any jobs available and not rely on this one company.

Helping someone with a qualification - which can take months or years - is not the same as promising a paid position. Have you maybe got your wires crossed? Either way, I think two months of 24 hour weeks should have given them time enough to know if they wanted to support him one way or another.
Does your DC have a diagnosis for his MH? Can he not claim ESA or PIP himself? People on benefits can still work or volunteer in roles which would be beneficial to his MH.
Or can he not cut his volunteer hours and get apart-time paid role while a decision is made in his current role.
It's unfortunate that you are having to pay more out due to him not being a dependent anymore, but I'm afraid it's a fact of life and will ultimately mean him having to financially independent in some way.

So if he only has two months experience I guess they need to weigh whether they offer him a job or advertise and then someone new with experience. So he has to sell himself really.

Can he start the conversation with i how and when he could start training for the qualification either with them or apprenticeship elsewhere? As an apprentice at least they will be funded.

No, they definitely said whilst working there he can do a level 1 and 2. Starting once he gets paid employment

I don't think that unpaid work trials are actually illegal, but as far as I'm aware, they should not go on for longer than is "reasonable". Of course, there is no legal definition of reasonable so I guess that would have to be tested in court, but longer than 2 months in a childcare setting seems to be pushing it in my view. They should have seen enough by now to determine whether he works well with the children or not.

I think it's fine to offer a longer internship in some cases (paid where possible but personally I think unpaid is OK where the business genuinely can't afford to pay), but an internship shouldn't be linked to a promise of paid employment.

If there is a promise of a paid job at the end of it, it's an unpaid work trial rather than a work experience placement, internship or volunteering opportunity. As such, I think it is taking the piss to keep him doing it for free without any clear communication about when he can expect to move into paid work. If they don't feel that he is ready to take on a paid role just yet, then that's fair enough but he needs to be told so that he decide what to do next.

Thinking about this some more, my initial responses and perhaps some others were based on your presentation of what your ds is doing as a "volunteering" opportunity. If you had described it as an unpaid work trial, which essentially seems to be what it actually is, then I think the responses might have been different.

Of course, that's assuming that your ds fully understood what he was being offered. Was the promise of paid work made in writing, and have you seen it? Or did you actually hear them making this commitment? Or might that be your ds's interpretation of what was on offer, when in actual fact, they may have been offering no more than unpaid work experience with the possibility that it could lead to a paid role at some point?

If your ds is sure that there was a promise of a paid job, did he not think to ask up front about timescales? It seems an obvious question!!

They are taking the piss and what they are doing is illegal. Interns should be paid the NMW. I would get him out of there, enroll him in college to do a childcare qualification and report them to HMRC.

At the age of 18 he can claim UC in his own right until he has either a paid job or college bursary but he can't claim it when he is working illegally for a business.

www.gov.uk/employment-rights-for-interns#:~:text=An%20intern%20is%20entitled%20to,that%20they're%20a%20volunteer

I'm scared now cause I told HMRC he is volunteering and now I'm scared they're gonna stop my money or something.

He doenst want to go back to college. He hated it.

Did you not say he got the volunteer role through a friend who works there? Can they not shed more light on what might happen.
As to being scared what you told HMRC, give them a call and explain the situation. Rather that than waiting to see if you're money will be stopped. Your son also needs to go to Job Centre to see what he is entitled to, if anything at all, whilst he's waiting for a decision on the paid role

Who recruited him? He needs to speak to them or the volunteer coordinator as to how he is getting on and whether there is a longer term plan. Could he use the skills he has learned to apply for a job or apprenticeship elsewhere? Does he have any gcses yet?