What's is it like to live in Sweden

[Greengrassgone]

because I'm just back from a weekend there and it seems like it is great!

I'm feeling really sad tonight that we've cut ourselves from Europe. Back to the land of potholes, shabby streets and lots of miserable people (well that was my three experiences since arriving home).

Is life in Sweden as good as it looked this weekend? It didn't seem much more expensive than the UK and everything just seemed to work and the streets were nice. Aware I may have tourist rose tinted glasses!

I would love to know too.

But we had potholes, shabby streets and miserable people when we were in Europe

It's not as nice as it seems at first sight according to a mate who married a Swede. There is a lot more racial tension and crime than most people realise, and the far right is a deal more serious than it is in the UK.

I lived in Sweden for several years. There are pluses and minuses.
Plus side:
-great childcare, most fathers also take a goodly share of paternity leave
-relaxed work culture, overtime is frowned on
-decent welfare state overall even if marred by managerialisr culture over the past 20 years

On the negative side:
-winters!! and darkness
-a lot of pressure to conform

• at the same time, the political climate is getting ugly with the rise of the extreme right
• not a very sociable country, it's awfully hard to make new friends
• horrible horrible housing market
• anywhere north of Skane/outside the 3 biggest cities food is a disaster. Restaurants are mostly poor, independent butchershops and grocers are nearly nonexistent. It's mostly supermarket grub but think small, old-fashioned supermarkets with very limited selection and sometimes half-decayed veggies. I became a semi-vegetarian as didn't fancy mass-produced pork tenderloin in plastic foil and presumably injected with brine. Bleurgh.

Should add I'm not British and don't live in the UK. Have lived in California, Germany and Holland and would honestly prefer any of them if we're talking outside of work.

Yes, very fair.
I live in Denmark these days.

Could someone expand on the pressure to conform? Conform to what? Interesting. @GrumpyPanda

@GrumpyPanda yep I agree with you on lots of those points- we lived in Denmark for 20 months in Copenhagen- very similar things. I agree about work- I would only want to live in a major city , rented housing better and cheaper than uk (apart from cheap uk areas) certainly better than south east uk. Food- well I've had great food both out and in - I do agree though some of it as a bit odd - lots of freezer food and jars- they don't do chilled ready meals. I would also agree they can be quite insular- so can be hard if you don't have colleagues to latch onto- Germans

@Greengrassgone I love it- but it's very ordered and can be not very sociable

If you want to feel better about your return to the UK -

Cold

Dark

Pretty terrible food outside the cities.

Swedes are nice but not especially friendly. Especially in winter when they hunker down (because cold and dark), but generally it is hard to make friends.

It’s quite a homogenous and controlled society, not always a lot of questioning about how things are run. The government is v present.

Jante law / code of modesty - do not stick your head out / get ideas above your station. A lot of people would reject it but it’s still around as a background concept and is a bit crushing.

Slightly mental patriotism at times - not aggressive, just a bit comedy blinkered.

The rise of the right is v present.

A lot of everyday racism. And not a lot of bystander interference when it happens from those who would say they weren’t racist. Very little understanding that racism doesn’t have to be intentional.

Obviously lots of good things too - quality of life, social support and safety nets. Good education and healthcare. Although if you have a higher income you do contribute to the latter.

@Cobot if you look up Jante law you will get a sense of it. It is way outdated as a belief system these days to be clear, but it’s very much in the fabric of life - and then you combine that with a slightly simplistic patriotism / belief that things are done best in Sweden, then the result is quite a conformist set up.

The pressure to conform in Scandinavian countries I found quite oppressive. It is frowned upon to be different.

The following rules to live by in order to fit in are pretty shocking…

The ten rules of Jante law state:

1. You're not to think you are anything special.
2. You're not to think you are as good as we are.
3. You're not to think you are smarter than we are.
4. You're not to imagine yourself better than we are.
5. You're not to think you know more than we do.
6. You're not to think you are more important than we are.
7. You're not to think you are good at anything.
8. You're not to laugh at us.
9. You're not to think anyone cares about you.
10. You're not to think you can teach us anything.

unfortunately Sweden is suffering terrible gang violence and rape. A quick google search will give info on it.

I'd happily move to Sweden or Denmark. I have friends in both countries, and I like the pace of life there.

Oh there are lots of good things, the life balance definitely being one.

Thank you, I read a few articles on Jantes law. Apparently originally intended as satire, it documented things as is, and is proudly proclaimed as quintessentially Swedish...wow.

This is an eye opener!

Isn’t it just! I guess nowhere is perfect, we live in a troubled world 😥

Rural and politically backwards outside of the major cities.

Food is pretty dire outside them too. Poor choice in the supermarkets. Pizza is the only safe bet for ‘international cuisine’. ‘Asian’ food is one homogeneous cuisine of chicken in red sauce. Obviously better if you are in Stockholm or Gothenburg.

Lots of racial tension as pp have explained.

Poor behaviour in schools, I’ve heard from older teacher friends. When I have met kids socially they have been pretty ‘spirited’ and cheeky. I’m a pretty chill parent too, not a stiff ‘seen not heard’ type and have been pretty aghast by stuff I have witnessed that Swedish parents think is fine.

Everyone dresses the same in greige maggot oversized clothing. Ok- that’s an exaggeration, but there is definitely a minimalist ‘look’. Huge pressure to conform fashion wise. If you dress ‘out there’, people will think something isn’t quite right about you.

and yes- it is expensive. Services are incredibly expensive in particular. Hand car washes are a luxury spend, for example. And having gel nails will set you back nearly £70. Obviously wages are higher, but then everything is higher too.

Can’t buy booze in the supermarket, so you have to go to the state offy. gangs of alcoholics do sit around the corner in packs.

Don’t ask a stranger when the bus comes- they’ll think you are mentally unwell. Swedes are nice when you get to know them, but closed off.

Norwegians are more insular as a nation but more gregarious than swedes. Danes are like brits imo. More open and exuberant.

@GavinHendersonsChipPan ha, ha- I recognise lots of this !! I did enjoy living in Copenhagen though and we went to Stockholm and Malmo a lot. We are back in uk and just been to Stockholm for new year-

I think it would very much suit some people-but not others- I must admit I did more cooking than I've ever done in my life as 'instant' meals aren't the thing- we did have a supermarket chain in Copenhagen I liked a lot called Meny and we had a fabulous food hall. Stockholm has an amazing food hall but it's pretty pricey- don't agree about fruit and veg though as others have mentioned- it was way better than uk I felt

I actually don’t think the law of Jante (autocorrect wants to make that the law of Janet😀) is all that different to attitudes in more insular parts of England, though, in its general attitude.

I’m not originally from the UK but lived there happily in London and another city for years, then moved to a village (having grown up in a rural part of my home country, so not unfamiliar with non-urban areas). I am a deeply ordinary person, but by the standards of the people I lived among for eight years in that village, I was very, very unusual, and this was definitely bad.

And when I say ‘unusual’, I mean being a WOHM who didn’t wear a wedding ring and cycled to work. Not a shaman with extreme body modifications who held psychedelic drug rituals on the village green.

Not a shaman with extreme body modifications who held psychedelic drug rituals on the village green.

Some places in London that'd fit right in and be most encouraged! I remember coming back from a few months in North Germany to King's Cross seeing a mad band playing outside and several people fitting the description above dancing to the music and thinking thank goodness I live here :D