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Agatha Christie books - Classics?
Iwasfeelingepic · 18/03/2023 17:33
I love Agatha Christie books & I was talking to a friend about what book I would chose if I could only pick one, when I said Then there were none, she laughed & said I should pick a 'classic'. I think Agatha's books are classics, but apparently if it's not War & Peace or Little Woman etc, then it doesn't count.
TragicMuse · 19/03/2023 12:48
WombatChocolate · 18/03/2023 18:32
Classics are novels that will endure and be read far into the future. They are usually high quality literature. Writers don’t usually produce or churn out the number of books AC did, with them being great literature.
I love AC too. I often read one and thoroughly enjoy it.
Would it be on the GCSE or A Level specification in the future? Probably not.
How long will people continue to read them and enjoy them? We don’t know yet, but they will probably never be considered high quality literature, but might endure.
May I introduce you to William Shakespeare? Writer of 39 plays and 154 sonnets in an approximate 34-year period. That's a mean average of around 4.5 sonnets a year and slightly over 1 play a year.
Considered the greatest writer in the English language and that's no small output.
Whether something is a classic is nothing to do with time or quantity...
Iwasfeelingepic · 19/03/2023 13:00
Templebreedy · 19/03/2023 12:23
Is it the Hitchcock version you’ve seen? Be prepared for the fact that the novel differs in one key respect — without spoilering it, the Hays Code meant that Hitchcock had to alter a major plot point. The novel is brilliantly ambiguous.
Iwasfeelingepic · 19/03/2023 09:42
I agrew
I haven't read Rebecca yet, loved the movie. It's on my wishlist
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 08:12
But what is ‘popular fiction’? What is a ‘classic’ ? It goes back to the similar kinds of discussions around ‘literary’ and ‘commercial’ fiction. They’re all just labels mostly used to market books. People then use them to somehow feel more intellectual which is obviously not a sign of real cleverness. There are zero prizes for being more into a narrow range of ‘classics’ than into extremely clever, well-constructed books that play with form and hook us in and hoodwink us.
Agatha Christie is the bestselling author of all time, bar Shakespeare and the bible, beloved by millions if not at this point by billions for over a century, and I think the reason she is critically underrated is in part due to historic sexism.
Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier is one of the cleverest books ever written, it bears rereading and rereading.
Yes it was the AH version. I'm swaying between ordering Rebecca on my Kindle or buying the book. We have just bought a bookcase so need books to fill it. Been in loads of charity shops the past few days.
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 15:24
crimereads.com/sophie-hannah-agatha-christie-literary-style/
Sophie Hannah is ‘team AC is brilliant’.
Iwasfeelingepic · 19/03/2023 15:46
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 15:22
I am so so so so jealous @Iwasfeelingepic that you haven’t read Rebecca yet. Absolutely brilliant, brilliantly constructed and characterised and will leave you thinking about the morality foe ages.
I am looking forward to reading it
JoonT · 19/03/2023 17:41
WombatChocolate · 19/03/2023 10:03
Most Booker Prize novels won’t become classics either. They might or might not be widely popular. They might endure or not.
I agree. It's difficult to assess books written in your own time, and even harder to guess which will be considered classics. To make it worse, literary critics and arts journalists have caved in to the woke mob. People increasingly win book awards, or publishing contracts, not for the quality of their writing but for who they are. The whole thing has become a box ticking exercise. A hundred years from now, if proper literary criticism survives, people will read today's Booker nominees in disbelief.
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 17:52
AlbertCampion · 19/03/2023 16:59
@Lightninginabox have you read Sophie Hannah's Poirots? I've read one and was so disappointed - and I like her other books!
Ooh do you know I actually always hate any ‘retelling’ of anything, it’s almost always just a rights exploitation exercise by the holder of the literary estate/the publisher/another writer and so I just never touch them! Almost especially if I love the new writer.
Exception for things like Wide Sargasso Sea that take an element and just spin it wide.
JoonT · 19/03/2023 18:05
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 11:38
But what does literary talent mean?? Christie’s ability to capture readers from the very first page and keep them hooked IS a literary talent, one that’s often overlooked and underrated. You speak of Dickens, one of whose greatest skills was deft characterisation- yet Christie in a very few lines created two of the best known characters in the world.
People are so weird about how they perceive books.
Personally, I do believe in a canon. Some people are cleverer and better read than others, and their opinion matters more. It certainly matters more than mine. If the brightest people in every generation have agreed that Homer and Plato and Dante and Shakespeare, etc, are great writers, then there must be something to it.
As for what makes a classic, I'll have a go:
- First, how well written is it? Is the language beautiful? Does the author use language in a striking, beautiful and unique way?
- Second, how profound is it? Does the author say something interesting about life/the human experience, etc? Is there a powerful imagination at work behind the novel or play or poem? How deep and broad is that mind? How intelligent is the author?
- Third, how original is it? Is the work unusual/unique? Does the author have a distinct and original voice?
That would be a good start. Unfortunately, literary criticism is pretty much dead. Critics have a sacred duty to judge every book honestly. Today, they have abandoned that duty. The woke mob have won. Harold Bloom warned about this fifty years ago, but he was ignored. People now judge books not on how good they are but on who wrote them. If you tick the right boxes, you will be published and praised, even if your work is mediocre. Equally, great writers are now being 'cancelled' for holding the wrong opinions, or just for being for wrong sort of person.
TheMarzipanDildo · 19/03/2023 18:33
JoonT · 19/03/2023 18:05
Personally, I do believe in a canon. Some people are cleverer and better read than others, and their opinion matters more. It certainly matters more than mine. If the brightest people in every generation have agreed that Homer and Plato and Dante and Shakespeare, etc, are great writers, then there must be something to it.
As for what makes a classic, I'll have a go:
- First, how well written is it? Is the language beautiful? Does the author use language in a striking, beautiful and unique way?
- Second, how profound is it? Does the author say something interesting about life/the human experience, etc? Is there a powerful imagination at work behind the novel or play or poem? How deep and broad is that mind? How intelligent is the author?
- Third, how original is it? Is the work unusual/unique? Does the author have a distinct and original voice?
That would be a good start. Unfortunately, literary criticism is pretty much dead. Critics have a sacred duty to judge every book honestly. Today, they have abandoned that duty. The woke mob have won. Harold Bloom warned about this fifty years ago, but he was ignored. People now judge books not on how good they are but on who wrote them. If you tick the right boxes, you will be published and praised, even if your work is mediocre. Equally, great writers are now being 'cancelled' for holding the wrong opinions, or just for being for wrong sort of person.
Lightninginabox · 19/03/2023 11:38
But what does literary talent mean?? Christie’s ability to capture readers from the very first page and keep them hooked IS a literary talent, one that’s often overlooked and underrated. You speak of Dickens, one of whose greatest skills was deft characterisation- yet Christie in a very few lines created two of the best known characters in the world.
People are so weird about how they perceive books.
Agatha Christie is profound about the human condition, and original. And she’s a solid writer.
Btw, there’s an interesting episode of The Rest is History (podcast) about her which I think is appropriately reverent!
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