What should the NHS not fund?

[Username721]

Saw a thread on IVF for lesbians and some people felt that IVF should not be for anyone on the NHS. So it got me thinking.

Is there anything you feel should be exclusively private treatment? The ones often debated are things like weight loss surgery, cosmetic procedures, treatment for avoidable illness such as smoking-induced ones, liver failure through alcohol abuse, drug rehabilitation…

Thoughts?

There is that arguement for smokers, yes

But not for regular consumers of margarine, vegetable oil, or highly processed food. These foods cause obesity and/or diabetes, and probably cost the NHS more than smoking. The taxes on these foods, and on sugar, need to increase many fold

'Sex' change operations, IVF, fertility treatment and providing free meals whilst people are in hospital. Patients should pay for their food. They would if they were at home.

The problem with taxing margarine is the price of butter! Many people - me included - have had to stop buying butter on a regular basis. It's a similar story for natural olive oil. It's no good taxing unhealthy food unless healthier alternatives are affordable. Either that or people have to be completely retrained not to consume spreadable fats or any foods cooked with oil, and that's not going to happen overnight.

@halfsiesonapotnoodle But the food is cooked in hospital so would cost £3? £4 a meal. I spend way less than that on food at home and could not afford that cost. So I would not order meals. I would just survive on cereal bars and fruit.

People having a heart attacks/dying young cost the NHS less. The biggest cost is dementia. If you live into your nineties your risk of dementia is very high.

obesity and diabetes cost the NHS billions

providing free meals whilst people are in hospital. Patients should pay for their food

There are so many reasons why this is a bad idea.

Some patients will need a specific diet while in hospital, some won't be able to afford it, some won't want to pay it, some will be under the control of an abuser so won't be allowed it, some will lack capacity to organise paying, and so on. Food is a basic human right. All patients in hospital should have free access to healthy, nutritious food and all mealtimes should be protected mealtimes to ensure that they get the chance to eat it.

There has to be some patient input. Why should the NHS fund it when money is barely available for many medical treatments?

Food costs make up less than 0.5% of the NHS budget, it's hardly a significant saving and poorly fed patients who take longer to recover would cost more than whatever is saved.

You start taxing sugar manufacturers find other probably equally as damaging stuff to put in instead.
Artificial sweetners aren't exactly God's gift to fat folk

no, that is true, artificial sweeteners are just as bad at causing diabetes. They should probably be taxed too

How are you proposing those who are miles from home get decent food?

You know if you start charging for hospital food people will end up living out the vending machines. Mars Bar for dinner. That's really going to he'll people get better.

But why sell any of these products in the first place? If they aren't there then they can't be bought and consumed. I include fags and vapes in this. No need and makes us a sick nation.

Agreed.

What if someone is already pregnant though and genuinely doesn’t have the funds (as we’re talking many thousands here)? Do you force them to terminate? Leave them to birth unassisted? Or make people get sterilised after a certain number of children if they don’t meet financial criteria?

I agree, and feel that margarine in particular should be classed as not fit for human consumption!

But it is about choice isn't it.

I cant imagine people happily agreeing the government can ban highly processed food and margarine, much as I wish they had never been invented

My dad, a wonderful and upstanding gentleman, who has never been in hospital until this incident.
Decided to walk the 5 min journey home from an 80th birthday party, with a good drink in him, slipped on black ice and snapped his ankle which required surgery.
He was knocked out lying in minus 1 temp and only came to after being found by my brother who dragged him into the car and to the house which was literary about 7 houses down the road and called an ambulance.

Dad was in shock, with a clearly disfigured ankle and was very very cold, it was actually really traumatizing for us all.

How would you determine if it was the ice or the drink that caused it or would you have a blanket rule of 1 drink and any accident means you are charged.

My mums friend, at my 21st party many years ago was standing and a bar staff tripped on one of the chairs, knocked into my mums friend who then fell, landed awkwardly and broke her wrist. She was drunk.

But would she be free from charges because someone else knocked into her that wasn't drunk, would she have fallen over so quickly has she not been drunk.

Can you imagine the amount of paperwork and investigating that would be needed, the costs would be unimaginable.

Your theory is basic level at best, dont just throw things out there without any thought or care at the consequences.

@MintJulia
I wouldn't give a&e space to rolling drunks over the age of 18.

Oh absa fucking lutely!

I get so mad seeing them being aggressive to ambulance staff and ward staff.

Lock them in a dark place where they can fight and vomit over each other!

Agreed its far too difficult to define 'alcohol related injuries'. And really you can't just ignore someone because they have had a couple too many.

We also need to be careful of dehumanising drunk people, because far to many people who have taken ill are written off as being drunk.

Most money is spent on keeping the very elderly alive and that is a conversation we as a country will need to have soon.
DH and I have signed advanced care directives (DD has a copy) that state if we don’t have capacity we want no life prolonging treatment: no hospitalisation, antibiotics, artificial feeding. I’m also hoping by the time we age we’ll have a UK equivalent of Dignitas.

Plastic surgery, IVF are a tiny part of the budget. I’m not bothered about them.

We need to stop free hospital transport and free meals.

The biggest users of the NHS are people in the last 6 months of life.

Be careful what you wish for.

how do you suggest patients get to and from hospital then?

Most people do not know it is the last six months of their life though.
People have a heart attack, get treatment and seem to recover and have another heart attack 3 months later.
People fall down the stairs and get taken to hospital and never recover.
People are in a car crash and get taken to hospital with serious life threatening injuries.

One of the thing you realise as you get older and lose more and more people is not that many people seem to have a gradual decline. In older people especially things can change very quickly. My gran was fine until the last three months of her life. She was 97 but still dressing and managing basic care by herself. She needed help with a shower as she was unsteady on her feet, and help making meals, but she was fairly fine. She had a heart attack and never recovered properly dying 3 months later. She had recovered before from a hip operation at 95 years old and was mobile, so there was no guarantee she would not recover from the heart attack.

And hospital transport is only available to disabled people who can't get to hospital. Wheelchair users, people who physically can't get into cars. My father in law could not physically get into a car for the last few years of his life. When we took him out for his birthday we had to hire a minibus with a rear lift.
Hospital transport takes so long that no one with any choice would choose to use it.

And I think this is where people are ignorant. They do not realise there are people who can not physically get into a car. And in my city there are not enough vehicles for hire with a rear lift to even make it possible for the private sector to meet the need for hospital transport.
They tightened up on who could get hospital transport years ago. Most people are just expected to get taxis.