What should the NHS not fund?

[Username721]

Saw a thread on IVF for lesbians and some people felt that IVF should not be for anyone on the NHS. So it got me thinking.

Is there anything you feel should be exclusively private treatment? The ones often debated are things like weight loss surgery, cosmetic procedures, treatment for avoidable illness such as smoking-induced ones, liver failure through alcohol abuse, drug rehabilitation…

Thoughts?

Yeah, this. This thread is actually just providing people with the opportunity to spew bile. People who have had no problems conceiving (myself included) maybe shouldn't be saying IVF shouldn't be funded... it doesn't sit right.

On a personal level, I hate it when people go on about smokers. My mum died of lung cancer having quit smoking some years earlier. Imagine suggesting someone be forced to live in pain and discomfort in their last years if they don't have the money to pay for treatment.

It certainly is. Scary too, especially for those of us no longer in the first flushes of youth.

I don't doubt that there are plenty on here who might say that my elderly mother should not have been treated for her severe pneumonia over Christmas. After all, they sanctimoniously trumpet, she is old and has been a smoker (no longer does), so self-inflicted. They think that these people should be left to die in pain and gasping for breath. Until it happens to them or a member of their family. Then they either change their tune or claim that that is somehow different.

There are some self-righteous idiots posting. Most probably only spout their bullshit online and not in real life.

I think everything should be funded otherwise it's a slippery slope. However I think the tax burden of that should be spread far more equally.

the wealth disparity is already here, look at life expectancy in poorer areas vs Chelsea. I know 3 people who have gone private for operations that had 12-18 months waiting lists on the nhs

I don’t think it’s ever funded in these circumstances, it’s funded for one child only, which I agree with.

Some unbelievably selfish responses. The lack of consideration for the different life circumstances of others is astounding. I've noticed it's often the people with children conceived easily who are against NHS funded IVF and they make weak arguments such as 'they need to find something else in life to do'. It's a comfort that the people I mix with in real life are generally kind, intelligent and empathetic.

32% success rate isn’t a “horrendous failure rate” and what are the “massive risks”?

They need to go much higher
And the tax on processed food and margarine, and sugar, all of which leads to obesity and diabetes

(There was a Yes Prime minister episode once when Humphrey explains that taxing tobacco higher would backfire, because fewer people would smoke, and their taxes were needed to fund the NHS!)

My dil is having IVF. They’ve been told 25% success rate on 1st cycle and 50% on 2nd.

@dontyouknobwhoiam I stand by my opinion as someone who lives in what is considerd a low income household. The NHS needs money and that either needs to come from raised taxes or payment at point of contact.

46.6% of the annual NHS budget is spent on wages. With NHS staff, rightly, damanding pay increases this will substancially increase with a huge drop in funding in all other areas. If the NHS crumbles those you mentioned in your post will have no healthcare at all.

*demanding

And the tax on processed food and margarine, and sugar, all of which leads to obesity and diabetes

Only if you eat them excessively. Perhaps learn to eat in moderation if you're worried?

I know that in other European countries women have to pay for the Pill.

I personally don't agree but I can see it being something that's cut in the future.

I not sure how much the NHS spends on IVF each year, less than a billion I think. Wound care costs the NHS 8.5bn per year and diabetes about 10bn a year ( combined that makes up nearly 20% of the total budget ), both areas could see massive reductions in the cost to the NHS with better prevention and lifestyle programmes.

Yes, that was pointed out to me and is a reminder not to offer opinions about stuff I know nothing about. Like I say, as someone who hasn't struggled in that way, I don't think it's my place to comment. If a friend or relative ever went through infertility, I sure as hell wouldn't be telling them 'I don't think you should get IVF on the NHS though.'

Do they also have to pay for abortion in those countries?

I think its incredibly difficult to start drawing lines based on lifestyle choices, especially when the UK has enough money to fund all of these, if the political will existed.

I would tighten up on a few technical areas, for example:

If a patient has a private procedure - the provider is responsible for all of the aftercare - as an orthopaedic surgeon, I get sick of looking after people who have had hip or knee replacements in the private sector - but the NHS picks up the time and costs of treating their post-op DVT, infection, dislocation or implant failure.

The other thing is all of the ancillary costs that could be provided by friends, family and neighbours - I think part of the reason our sense of community has disappeared is because the NHS is too willing to provide and cover the costs of transport, food, bedding and certain aspects of social care. There is almost a learned helplessness in society, which, despite all the good things the NHS has achieved, is one of the negative consequences.

If a patient has a private procedure - the provider is responsible for all of the aftercare - as an orthopaedic surgeon, I get sick of looking after people who have had hip or knee replacements in the private sector - but the NHS picks up the time and costs of treating their post-op DVT, infection, dislocation or implant failure

What if they can’t afford it? I had a private procedure which went very wrong.

I don’t think people should be allowed to stop funded transitioning to have funded IVF. They should be allowed to have one or the other on the NHS and then fund the other privately. I saw a woman who had paused her transition to do exactly that and I was outraged because I just thought, how dedicated can she actually be to changing sex? Giving birth is the most womanly thing you can do. By all means, have both procedures but only one can be funded.

What if they can’t afford it?

No one is going to answer this because it means admitting that they think people should just have to suffer/die.

@Honeyroar I'm glad it didn't kill u, but it nearly killed me. My twins saved my life and gave me a whole new meaning to life that I couldn't see when I was stuck in the grieving process of infertility.
It is essential.

Maybe as part of the private procedure they should be asked to take out a health insurance policy for any unforseen events?

This is where the private health care in the UK falls down its good for effectively que jumping and one off procedures. It's not so good when it comes to long term issues or complaints.

Bless your heart that you appear to live in a world where every woman has control over her reproductive choices, access to contraception and a partner who will also take steps to avoid getting them pregnant.

How many domestic abuse victims will need to die of pregnancy related "self-indulgence" before you realise it's a shit idea?

Providing female hormones for men, particularly when women who need hrt are unable to get it due to shortages. GRS, cosmetic plastic surgery, unless there is certified medical/mental health need.

This.

And the fact that the government can afford to properly fund the NHS, they just don't want to. The reason it's "broken" is because they want it broken, that way when they suggest people have to pay for x, y or z we'll agree as it's "better" than the current system and then they can hand the £££ contract for that to one of their mates.