Year 5 age 10 dd needs a lap top, how to get school to let her use one we will provide

[Laptopneeded]

Just that really.
I've been on a long journey with my dd trying to work out why she's struggling etc and pretty much had to do it alone with outside help.
It's now clear she would benefit greatly from using a laptop because she's a fast typer and her hand is slow and tires.
Her special sen tutor outside school has said she needs this bit the school sneco sort of wasn't interested? Just looked and moved off topic.

Why wouldn't they let her use one we will pay??

Any idea or those who have one.

@Comefromaway

We had one done and it was a brief and shallow report, it was a while ago and it was quick I'm not sure it covered her hand writing stamina

I know it costs but maybe it's worth getting a diagnosis if you can? DS has used his own laptop at secondary school for a few years now due to dyspraxia, you'll probably find it a lot easier to organise there than at primary school as it's much more normal.

It sounds to me that an Educational Psychologist assessment would be useful and perhaps an Occupational Therapist assessment too. You can go privately and seek independent assessments for these - services within LA's and NHS are dire in most areas unfortunately.

Look at dysgraphia and then see who in your area can do an assessment. Private OT probably could or a private Ed Psych.

Take it up with the SENCO again, and again, and again. You will likely have to pay for any kind of private assessment but be warned the waiting lists are dire even for private. I'm trying to get Dts officially assessed for dyslexia and hitting brick walls everywhere.

Can you expand on the tired hand though, is it low muscle tone tone? Any other issues? Something must have prompted you to see SEN tutor in the first place, do they have no advice?

Gp can refer for Occupational Therapy and Paed. Could she be hypermobile? Check posture and make sure her wrist and arm are correctly supported.

you Need to push for her to be referred to OT who can do proper assessments and provide things to help strengthen her hands.

a school rightly won’t jump straight to laptops without trying other things first. Ds does use a laptop for long pieces now but still does writing most of the time and strengthens his hands with exercises as well as having things to help when writing.

Your private tutor can say whatever she likes, doesn't make it a legitimate requirement of the school to make provitions.

Taking private tech into school comes with a host of problems particularly because of the age of the children. Breakage, theft, suitability, connection to networks, safeguarding if it is independently connected to the Internet, storage, accessing work/or printing off work created on it etc etc.

That's not too say that these things are insurmountable because obviously children use adaptive technology in schools but it generally isn't private tech. I'm just highlighting that it isn't the easy option you may think it is.

Your best bet is to try your GP/Occ Health or Physio to get some assessments done and to find out what is happening and find the best adaptations to help your child.

I’m surprised this person didn’t suggest getting a referral to occupational therapy through the GP.

In addition to a multitude of software that can help, there are also exercises and other aides that can help to increase hand strength.

To get a referral to the assistive tech team here you have to have some sen and input from other professionals as they all work together to help meet the needs of the child and those working closely around the child. Once you have been seen by OT you can discuss tech in the class with them.

Habing a formal diagnosis will also help in other years such as additional time for exams.

@LIZS

Good point myself and her dad are hypermibile in various places!

Will try doctor

If your child used their own laptop to write things, how will the teacher get a copy to mark it? Will you print it off at home and send it in the next day? I doubt you would be able to link to the schools network to paint at school as schools don’t usually allow private devices to access the school network. There is also the issue of keeping it charged, my laptop is new but I’m not sure it would hold a charge for the whole of a school day. It would be very unsafe to use it plugged in with trailing wires in a classroom.

You really do need a specific diagnosis of what is causing the weak arm/ hand then the school should provide the necessary technology if the professionals think it necessary. I’d start with a visit to your GP to discuss possible reasons and a referral to an occupational therapist or a physiotherapist. At the same time, if you can afford it, look at getting a private EP and dyslexia assessment so you get the full picture of your child’s needs.

With such a young child, I think it is important to find out why her hand gets tired, be it a physical problem or a specific learning difficulty, a lap top on its own might not be the best way forward.

I was a SENCO at a Secondary School until recently and we had quite a few children who used lap tops for various reasons - but all had some form of diagnosis, not simply parental or private tutors request. We provided the lap tops, together with software, linked them to our network and took responsibility for charging them and printing off the work ( often pupils sent work to teachers rather than printing) and the laptops were kept in securely in school.

Apologies, I read your initial comment wrong, thinking your child was only 5 years old! But my advice still applies to an older child but you should also be able to get evidence of a mismatch between ability and quantity of work produced from existing teachers. In your case, speed is of the essence to get reports done well before secondary school so the use of a lap top is their regular way of working before they change schools.

@Roundandnour

Which person? The one we used outside?

Why would she?

She was enormously helpful far more than the school in every other way!

@Ilovetocrochet thanks but how do we go about proving this.
. It's secondary school I have my eye on to get her set up.

My DS (11, year 7) recently had a handwriting speed assessment. It was suggested & done through an NHS OT, we only had to wait a couple of months between a general OT/physio appointment & this. They sent a report to his school stating he is on 4th centile which means he needs extra consideration in assessments etc & recommended using a laptop.

He already has autism & ADHD diagnosis, diagnosed summer last year, this I believe is off the back of that.

What does the tutor do with your DD? Does she have specialist qualifications or can she do assessments?

It does sound as though you’ve lost faith in the school. The word SENCo is an abbreviation for Special Educational Needs Coordinator, so coordinating is accurate.

Access to EPs in school is difficult these days, but it does sound as though your DD might benefit from an assessment to determine what her needs are. Would you consider a private assessment?

I do think a laptop, whilst it might be useful, is tricky in a primary school. Insurance, access to the network, printing work, safeguarding, all come into play.

There are a few things you could do that might help.

See your GP to check for physical reasons for the sore hand when writing - query dyspraxia, hyper mobility, mild cerebral palsy, childhood arthritis and others.

Get eyes checked at Optician if not already done.

Ask school for dyslexia assessment through Educational Psychologist or specialist spld assessor.

Consider paying for a private dyslexia assessment if you can afford it to speed up the process.

It’s going to be difficult to persuade a secondary school to consider lap top use without an official report and specific recommendation. They would need to gather their own evidence to see if your child could write more and achieve higher levels when using a lap top which will take time. After all, a lot of children/parents would “ like” their child to use a lap top if it’s quicker/ easier but exam boards still expect papers to be handwritten unless there is a documented need. Schools have to apply to the exam boards for such special arrangements, providing specific evidence. There would be no point in using a lap top in lessons if exams still have to be handwritten.

Evidence from professional assessments is essential really, it’s not just about being able to use a lap top to write but about knowing why your child struggles so other therapeutic measures can be put in place.

Certainly ask for a transition meeting with the secondary school SENCO in Y6 to express your concerns but you will also need the support of the primary school SENCO at such a meeting.

Have you tried using different styles of pens and used pen grips to see if you can find one your child finds more comfortable?

It really isn't that straight forward.

1. Connecting external devices to the school's wifi and server has implications for the security of the system. I am a teacher and I am not allowed to connect my home laptop to the school server.
2. She would need somewhere safe to store it. If it is broken, the school will not want responsibility for this.
3. Students in Y5 do not write at length that often. If she is answering comprehension questions for example, it isn't necessary to type.
4. She needs to develop her stamina in writing potentially.
5. If she uses specialist software to help her with spelling, punctuation and grammar, she will need to switch this off when completing assessments where this is assessed. E.g In Year 6 writing, spell checks and grammar checks have to be turned off when using a laptop.
6. There is some evidence that the process of handwriting has links to reading and spelling ability. Google links between handwriting and spelling or reading and you will find some interesting research.

Two of my children use laptops at school, for different reasons. One due to hypermobility - assessed by OT due to pain when writing, referred by gp. The other is due to asd, again on the recommendation of OT, this time referral was from school.
Arrange a meeting with sendco, ask what they are doing about her difficulties. They should have a plan in place if there are issues that mean she struggles at school - this applies to physical issues such as poor pen control or educational needs such as dyslexia. Ask if they do any screening for dyslexia or writing speed - these will be needed to access extra time or other adjustment in exams such as sats as well as GCSE further down the line.

You should compare notes with the OP on this thread, you have loads in common

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4762528-dyslexia-assement-very-expensive-is-there-any-point-if-its-mild-but-child-is-slow-at-exam?latest=1

There is generally an effort in primary to push handwriting, it's seen as part of their job, whereas at secondary it's not and they support laptop use much more readily. I would get her assessed for dyslexia and get an OT assessment (both hard to get for free but not difficult to find if you can pay for them) and take it from there.

Yes the one outside.

Because she seems to think there is an issue that needs additional support.

She could have told you to get a referral with Occupational health for example who would work with your dd to do excercises and what pens etc to use before going onto use electrical devices.

Eben if she’s a private school teacher she would know about the benefits of getting an official diagnosis. The school cannot just say to the exam boards Emma gets a tired hand so needs extra tine, someone to transcribe etc. official documentation is needed.

When I did this for a living if I was unable to make the diagnosis myself I would support
the parents making referrals to whoever would be the best department. Yes sometimes this meant I was no longer working with the child and loosing money, but the support I could provide was no longer in the child’s best interest to meet their full capabilities. And tbh as soon as I realised hand tiredness for example was an issue started pushing for those referrals.

If she is going to have to hand write her GCSE exams you might be better off focusing on her handwriting and writing speed, despite the frustration.

In a lot of places you can self refer to OT. Google your local service. It's really not that difficult to get accepted provided you focus on the occupations she finds difficult - i.e. handwriting is a barrier to recording her learning and is therefore impacting on her academic performance.

Throw on other difficulties too - dressing, cutlery, play etc.

If you pay, you may get told what you want to hear ( there are unscrupulous assessor's out there) so schools don't tend to give them so much weight.

Administering a DASH (detailed assessment of handwriting speed) can be done in school - by any school who has bought the assessment pack. You don't need any particular knowledge - but writing needs to be really poor to meet threshold.

I would definitely encourage her to practice her writing - especially numbers because it's hard to layout the numbers on a screen to effectively show working out for more complicated sums at ks2.

DS1 has used a laptop throughout his school life. He is 16 and is allowed to use a laptop in his GCSE exams if he requests to.

he has some hyper mobility and suffers from poor muscle tone. When he was 6/7 he has a lot of referrals and treatment off the back of the school organising an ED Pysch assessment. At the time he had physio, hydrotherapy and occupational therapy. They gave him special games/exercises to do plus a special shaped pencil grip as well as a writing slope. The school also made sure a laptop was available and he had touch typing lessons in primary school. Because he has always had this provision in place it was easier to get it accepted as a reasonable adjustment for his GCSE exams.