I’m rewatching call the midwife from the beginning and I have some questions

[Soubriquet]

When was it more acceptable for young women to give birth out of wedlock, or as single mothers?

When was it “acceptable” for teens to give birth without bringing shame to the family?

When was it accepted that those same teenage mothers got to choose if they wanted to keep their baby, rather than the parents making the decision for you?

Mischance - would you mind if I sent you a PM? No worries if you would find that intrusive.

Bizarrely in my aunts small town it was more acceptable to be waddling down the aisle 7 months pregnant at 19 than to be pregnant 12 years later with her planned child with her same husband.

the age gap and age of her was deemed an absolute scandal

Yes, my great grandmother.

My grandmother was born when she was 15 in 1919.

My great grandmother and my grandmother went to live with a family member at the other end of the country, added three years to my great grandmothers age and said she had a husband who had been killed.

Even with that family support from her mother, they still had to move across the country and lie.

I visited a boyfriend in Ireland in the 1980s and a friend of his (about 21) had had a baby and she said it was terrible the way people treated her as she was unwed.
I'm amazed @BlueThursday! My mother (born in the 1920s) had us in her late 30s and her mother had her (six older siblings) at 40 and had another after! No one thought anything of it - I thought women kept on having them back then as no birth control.

@Edithisoverthere one of the horrific articles was about women being sent into mental asylums or being sterilized for becoming pregnant and the racist element of course. Lobotomies were also done on single mothers ...
I hope you can find this book

I've been reading quite a lot about the lobotomy/asylum angle - it's fascinating but horrific, also interesting in terms of the continuing pathologisation of women. There is an incredible book on the ways in which enslaved women were used as guinea pigs for obs and gynae 'research' too.

I left school in 1987. The day we got our O level results, a girl in our year had twins. She was 16. It wasn't considered shameful. I was friendly with her older sister, and stayed in touch for a few years. The babies were raised by their mum, dad lurked in the background a bit. They got a council flat and seemed to have an ok life.

Maybe not what my classmate had planned, but not shameful.

My mother got pregnant with me age 16 in 1965. She went into a Mother and Baby home and I was supposed to be adopted. On the day of my adoption my mum changed her mind and her parents supported her to keep me.

They had not told anyone she was pregnant and suddenly there was a new born baby in the house. My grandparents lied to their families and said I was their baby, and after a while this became the 'truth'. I was never told that the person I thought was my older sister was really my mother.

the family relationship was really screwed up and horribly disfunctional. Everything was based on a lie. I found out when I was 26 but didn't tell any of them what I'd discovered for another ten years. I eventually told my sister/ mother and it didn't go very well at all. She was so full of shame about getting pregnant in the first place but also about giving me away. She wanted nothing to do with me as her daughter but was in a difficult situation because she was still my 'sister'. It was horrendous really, it would have been better if I'd been adopted.

My parents got divorced around 1994, I remember noticing a shift around 2003 or so, previously when I mentioned it to people they would say "Oh sorry." Like it was something terrible! And later on it was just seen as something normal (which is how it should be IMO).

My cousin's parents were married less than 9 months before she was born, that was the late 80s. I've no idea actually if they had been together long term before that.

My grandparents lost their first baby in the 1950s. My grandad still gets upset about it and he's 97 now. Unfortunately I think back when babies were lost more commonly it was just seen as something you had to get on with. Babies left on the side because they were likely to die is in one of the earlier call the midwife series too - I think put it in the cupboard was the medical advice. Babies weren't really seen as people, they used to do open heart surgery on them without anaesthetic because people thought they couldn't feel pain (I'm always speechless about this because they so obviously clearly can!) I don't know if that was everywhere or just in America, I've only come across it in the context of anti circumcision info. This is still done routinely in America without anaesthetic.

I also remember a storyline in the late 90s of teenage pregnancy in coronation Street with Sarah Louise - Gail the mum was considering passing the baby off as her own. So clearly it was taboo still even then. Sarah Louise was only 13 though IIRC.

Relatives ‘had’ to get married in early ‘70’s, female relative is still very embarrassed & won’t talk about it at all. They’ve been married for over 50years & so the marriage has worked but she feels the stigma.

The shift was in the 90s 00s. My mum had me in late 70s she had to marry the sperms donor before I was born they got divorced about 5 years later. I had my son in mid 90s and I was looked down on for years did tell family fir months till I had no choice as was so obvious.

I think even in the 60's attitudes were starting to change although it would take another couple of decades before real change happened.
My aunt got pregnant in the early 60's, my gran and grandad told her she didn't have to get married if she didn't want to. They helped her to raise my cousin until my aunt married someone else a few years later. My mum did say their attitude was more unusual though.

There is a documentary called The Family, that was made by the BBC in 1974.

It focuses on one family, and does include teen parenthood, a child who is the product of an affair, an unmarried couple living together, and also a young white teen, in a relationship with her mixed race boyfriend.

The documentary series The Family (1974), is all on YouTube, and I Found It interesting to watch. There is also a one off episode from 1984, on YouTube, which shows The Family 10 years later.

I had a boyfriend- born 1970- whose father in law at his first wedding made a point of saying in his Father of the Bride speech that "even though Bob's a bastard, he's actually turned out to be a nice lad" this was circa 1995. I cried when he told me that many years later, broke my heart.

I’m in the US. I grew up in the Midwest and for sure way into the 80’s there was still a stigma attached to sex outside of marriage and pregnancy outside of marriage was unthinkable - went to a Catholic high school. My friend in University in 1983 or so had an abortion - she was 20 and knew her parents would be horrified and throw her out of the house if she turned up pregnant.

Up until the time I was married (36!) I was hyper hyper vigilant about birth control, No sex from me unless I used something and the guy used something as well. This came from my upbringing I’m sure!

I remember in primary school in the early 90's being given a letter for my mum addressed to 'Mrs Coffee'. Except my Mum had divorced my father by then and was going by her pre-marriage name of Sack. I told the teacher Coffee wasn't my Mum's surname and she told me I was a disgraceful child and should be ashamed of myself. Apparently children belonged in married families. Cue being called various awful things for the rest of my primary school life because my parents were divorced. Broken home as a taunt was one of the better ones

That teacher is long dead now, but she would be spinning in her grave if she ever found out I changed my surname by deed poll as soon as I was 18 to Sack. Despite marrying DH, I still use the surname Sack, mainly because my initials and DH's surname spell something very rude.

11 and 14. Those poor girls. I suppose the father's were never prosecuted.

One of the saddest episodes in Call the Midwife was the baby Cottingham (Thalidomide baby) whom Sister Julianne discovers is left to die by an open window in the sluice room. 😭😭😭😭😭

Oh Coffee you've just reminded me that my year 3 teacher apparently took a vehement dislike to me, this would have been 1996. She told my mum that I had problems because I was from a broken home I was not a problematic child, but I was quite dreamy and she often said that I wasn't listening, which confused me because I usually was.

I cannot imagine a teacher saying this to a parent today.

2001, my friend and I both 19. She got pregnant by her boyfriend and "had to" marry him. We were from religious community though. Marriage didn't work out for her . Wasn't a good marriage. But this wasn't the norm outside of our community.

💐@BertieBotts and @coffeesackcat I'm so sorry you had to endure that. It baffles me how anyone could be so cruel to a child for something that isn't their fault.

I was born in the early eighties, and my mother was treated horribly in the maternity hospital because she was divorced.

I had my eldest in the early 2000’s, and they were more bothered that I was fat than unmarried.

@KrasiTime sad how the “shame” was so deeply ingrained.
My grandparents have been married 70 years (as mentioned upthres, my Nana was 16 and “had to get married”), but up until their 70th Anniversary last year, they never had a wedding photo on display. I’d never seen one, my mum had never seen one, none of her siblings had ever seen one until then. They were tucked away in a box, and hidden. In the photo, she has the most obnoxiously enormous bouquet, strategically placed, but you can still see that she’s heavily pregnant!

@Ringmaster27 yes you are right about ‘the shame’ when there should be none. So sad that your grandparents didn’t have a wedding photo up. Come to think of it neither did my relative.

Also the difference between the way the older child was treated compared to the younger ones who were conceived after.

It’s left the elder with some issues that they were never really wanted. Such a shame as it wasn’t the case as they were adored when they were born. Realistically they’d have ended up getting married eventually anyway.