Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

The term Karen

94 replies

Errmmmmmmmmmmm · 07/03/2023 17:55

So today i was having a conversation with my DS about Charlie and the Chocolate Factory and we were discussing the characters names. Verruca came up, he said she shouldn't be called that, she should be called Karen. I asked why and he said Karen is usually a lady who is bossy and not demanding. He's 8! I am surprised that a term such as Karen has reached his age group.

OP posts:
Surplus2requirements · 07/03/2023 19:27

frozendaisy · 07/03/2023 18:57

What about the male equivalent Kyle?

I thought Kevin was used?

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 19:32

Tekkentime · 07/03/2023 19:25

How do women (the target of being labelled Karen) argue against it without being labelled Karen?

Yes - it's awful, as I've heard people go 'oh what a Karen thing to do (to argue against the use of the name in a disparaging way).

It's unbelievable how misogynistic the use of it as a slur is, and the suggestion that anyone objecting is typifying exactly the derogatory associations with the name that some people have tried to create

surreygirl1987 · 07/03/2023 19:35

How awful! Karen is such a misogynistic term, used for silencing women.

WiIson · 07/03/2023 19:38

It's horrible. Turned a perfectly lovely woman's name into a misogynist slur.

BibbleandSqwauk · 07/03/2023 20:06

I've taken on idiots on FB for using the term and absolutely been called a Karen for objecting to it. I've explained to my early teen kids that it's a way of trying to silence women who have gained the confidence to assert themselves, ask for good service, or appropriate care / education for their children. It's much easier to try and gaslight them into shutting up by calling them Karen then meeting their expectations. Bit like a man calling his wife a nag to get her to stop asking him to pull his weight.

Original poster
Errmmmmmmmmmmm · 07/03/2023 20:37

thanks for the responses. i asked him where he had heard it, from his friends at school apparently. I did say to him it isn't a nice term as it is an insult and people find it offensive.

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:35

I did say to him it isn't a nice term as it is an insult and people find it offensive.

You're going to have to do better than that OP.

The offensiveness comes from taking a woman's name & linking it to unpalatable behaviour and also from the suggestion that any woman who assets herself or is confident to complain or make her opinion heard can be tagged as such.

You need to explain why that's misogynistic.

GatoradeMeBitch · 07/03/2023 21:47

Feel very sorry for Tracys, Sharons, Karens and Alexas these days

Sharons and Tracys though? That was an 80s thing.

saveforthat · 07/03/2023 21:48

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:35

I did say to him it isn't a nice term as it is an insult and people find it offensive.

You're going to have to do better than that OP.

The offensiveness comes from taking a woman's name & linking it to unpalatable behaviour and also from the suggestion that any woman who assets herself or is confident to complain or make her opinion heard can be tagged as such.

You need to explain why that's misogynistic.

Jesus this is a patronising post.

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:50

@saveforthat

Why?

Why is it patronising to explain exactly why the term is offensive, when OP has given such limited (and not fully correct) answer to her DS?

And what's your issue with the explanation? 🤔

saveforthat · 07/03/2023 21:56

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:50

@saveforthat

Why?

Why is it patronising to explain exactly why the term is offensive, when OP has given such limited (and not fully correct) answer to her DS?

And what's your issue with the explanation? 🤔

I think the OP knows why it's offensive that's why your post comes across as patronising. Her DS is 8. They repeat things they hear.

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:59

@saveforthat

You are making no sense. He is 8 and plenty old enough to have a proper explanation. OP's explanation to him was wrong.

I've sons and have been clear on matters like this from an early age.

You seem a bit wound up by just a straightforward explanation (and no, that's not meant to be patronising!)

Changedmymindtoday · 07/03/2023 22:00

I was called a Karen the other day at the airport by a posh, male fuckwit for walking away when I was in earshot of very racist comments.

He did not like being confronted and all he could say was Karen repeatedly.

WillBeAbsolutelyFine · 07/03/2023 22:09

Objecting to the word Karen and using "woke" as an insult really doesn't do the movement any favours. It's exactly one of the original reasons you'd be called a Karen.

How about people stop using a catch all term to insult others?

saveforthat · 07/03/2023 22:17

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 21:59

@saveforthat

You are making no sense. He is 8 and plenty old enough to have a proper explanation. OP's explanation to him was wrong.

I've sons and have been clear on matters like this from an early age.

You seem a bit wound up by just a straightforward explanation (and no, that's not meant to be patronising!)

I'm not wound up. I am just objecting on behalf of the OP at you telling someone they need to do better.

DojaPhat · 07/03/2023 22:20

Karen, much like 'woke' has been bastardized so far from its original meaning. Now it's used to pretty much tell any woman to shut up.

ChocSaltyBalls · 07/03/2023 22:24

I hate it. Lazy sexist and ageist nonsense, designed to bring down us middle aged women who stick up for ourselves. Society really does hate us.

RRRException · 07/03/2023 22:25

Highly recommend reading “Hags: the demonisation of middle aged women” by Victoria Smith.

It has a whole chapter devoted to the Karen-ing of white middle aged women and how misogynists have taken over the insult, originally a racist identifier, as a catch all of hatred for that most threatening creature, a not young woman who dares to speak up.

And yes how do you speak up against it without being Karen-ed? It aims to silence - back in your box, toe the line, pipe down, it’s not ladylike and other such bollocks.

EarringsandLipstick · 07/03/2023 22:28

@saveforthat

Ah, let it go.

I am absolutely entitled on a thread discussing a child using the name 'Karen' as a slur to put forward a suggestion of what accurate information a child should be given

(And the OP is entitled to ignore my suggestion. It's a discussion forum, not law)

TroysMammy · 07/03/2023 22:30

I was called it on Facebook the other week. I asked if that was the best he could come up with in the hope that women shut up. Because women think "men" who use it are just bell ends. He never replied.

HaveTheDayOff · 07/03/2023 22:42

I’m surprised that 8 year olds are still saying Karen as it’s dated now.

DonkeyOatie · 07/03/2023 22:42

I was referred to as being a Karen on the first day at my job, purely because I am female and in my 50s, by my 27 year old male supervisor.

He is an arsehole.

UWhatNow · 07/03/2023 22:44

Changedmymindtoday · 07/03/2023 22:00

I was called a Karen the other day at the airport by a posh, male fuckwit for walking away when I was in earshot of very racist comments.

He did not like being confronted and all he could say was Karen repeatedly.

”I’d rather be a Karen than a racist cunt.”

Deathraystare · 07/03/2023 23:24

Oh dear. I do agree it is often used to shut Women down. However I do enjoy watching the behaviour of Katrns on you tube . Mind you in my defence for what it is worth these are never reasonable women who gently ask if someone would move their bag from a seat. They seem unhinged. They throw fòod at fast food staff, accuse black males of not living at the same apartment complex as themselves etc.

I realise it is hurtful to accuse any woman who stands up for her self/asks to see the manager about shoddy service etc As a Karen. I did something online where your name is used repeatedly instead of Karen. It was like scolding you for your behaviour and it did bother me!

Catapulko · 08/03/2023 01:59

I did something online where your name is used repeatedly instead of Karen. It was like scolding you for your behaviour and it did bother me

It's feels really awful when you see your name connected with people behaving awfully, especially when it is used to refer to racist behaviour. It's an almost visceral reaction. There was an online site where you could input your name and it would take various memes etc and substitute your name for Karen, to demonstrate how it feels.