Passing English.

[3littlebeans]

Does it matter which "English" it is to count as a pass in English and Maths?

Ie can it be English literature?

Will it count for jobs that need "a c in English and Maths" for example?

Even if it can currently I wouldn't rely on it as they can change the goalposts.
I'd really try to get a pass in Eng Lang.

Not usually.

They tend to require English Language.

English Lit is very different and historically easier to pass (former English teacher here!) Marking scheme and criteria for grades are different.

A friends daughter passed Lit not Language and college didn't worry, so I'm guessing it passes the legal education requirements

I'm an employer though, and I'd look for Language and I encouraged her to think of her future CV not passing some transient government hurdle. She didn't take my advice.

It depends. Universities expect Language.

Further ed / vocational courses maybe not so much.

I'm glad I encouraged her then.

Ah sorry this isn't for my daughter - but adjacent to my line of work.

I was wondering what those 18+ might need in life currently applying for jobs etc. Uni isn't in the question at all.

And out of curiosity if it counts in a schools "passing English and Maths statistic."

Either counts for schools and for not resitting. Lang is the important one for life.

The mean language, unless stated otherwise.

School stats break it down into 2 subjects.

English Lit is sometimes an optional subject so the default for a 'pass' is English Language.

Ah so if you don't have to resit language if you have literature, then some students might come unstuck later?

Surely colleges/6th forms only make you resit if you didn't pass either then?

It's seeming a bit of a grey area.

Sorry, I don't understand what your question is with this one.

Unstuck? with what?

It's not a grey area at all.

Maybe if you can give some context for your questions.

You said it was for your work.

Ah so if you don't have to resit language if you have literature, then some students might come unstuck later?

I didn't say that.

What do you mean by 'unstuck'?

Are you asking as a parent or an employee?

things must have changed - in the days of O levels I don't think you would have passed Eng Lit without good written English and excellent comprehension

I teach resits in an FE college . If a student has a 4 in Eng lit they don't have to do English Lang - however we would offer it to them and be funded if they wanted to do it.

Sorry my personal context running groups for adults - I have nothing to do with English GCSE/functional skills but it was something they were discussing (does English lit count as "passing English") but weren't asking me specifically - but it was why I was interested. Not overly directly relevant to my OP - but means I don't have a personal stake in the answer.

By "unstuck" I meant if school have deemed them as having "passed" English (as they have passed English literature and that counts in the statistics/ whether they resit or not) but when applying for jobs it will look as if they don't "have" English. Surely they should be encouraged to resit at 6th form/college if its English Lang that counts?

I'm just trying to get my head around it.

Ah Rae cross post - that's really helpful .

@RaelImperialAerosolKid 👈What they said!

It's not clear what you mean in the context of @3littlebeans question.

She's asking about employment, not what might be accepted at a college of FE for their courses.

When employers ask for a Pass in maths and English, they mean English Language.

Literature is an optional subject.

School exam results/ tables, break down Language and Literature. It's actually easier to get a pass in Literature as the criteria for written English is lower. They gain marks on their answers (responses to novels, poems, plays etc) rather than being able to answer comprehension questions / write creatively, and use correct grammar and punctuation.

As a parent (of sec age DCS?) I assume you know this anyway so apologies if you do!

I used to see this time and time again with my students; their grades for Lit would often be one grade higher than for their Language exam.

Any employer could ask if their 'pass' in English was Language or Literature and they could ask for copies of their exam certificates.

In FE it would be advantageous if they did resit English Language but it all depends on what their career plans are.

I don't understand the post by @RaelImperialAerosolKid unless she's talking about access to courses in FE where they accept a pass in Lit.

I think they want the pass in English language because that's more about reading comprehension

Callintheclowns. Yes I know full well you can get the breakdown for every GCSE on the school website.

However "passing English and Maths" is a gov measure just like progress 8 and the exact.

See attached - every school gets measured on this. But it's not clear which English!

God, I fail at comprehension. I thought this thread was about ‘passing as English’.😀

If a 16 year old gets a 3 in English language they have to resit it (until they get to 18) if they are doing a full time course at college. If they are doing a part time course or got a 2, they can take a functional skills course.
A pass in English Literature may help them get onto the course they want but they still have to resit they haven't got the Language grade.
Statistically, Language isn't harder to pass than Literature. There is a lot of overlap in skills and often Literature suits students who do a lot of preparation. But the figures include all the students retaking Language (and who are likely to fail again) so that skews the figures making it look like a lower percentage of students pass.

Eng language is the one that counts.

One of them. For schools, as I said, it doesn't matter which.