Why is it always the same ones

[VinoPleaseforOne]

Okay, hear me out Mumnetters.

I really am not one of “ those “ Mothers.

I am not at all in any way.

I just wonder. Genuinely. Why it is that some teachers always pick the same children for main parts in school plays and for the delivery of lines.

As I have said to my child today after school, who was devastated at not being picked for anything again- it’s the taking part that counts.

It really doesn’t feel fair. I do understand to a certain extent why they do it- for confidence, reliability etc, but it is very upsetting for some of those children who are constantly left out.

Of course I would never say anything. Teachers have enough on their plate and do a cracking job, so this is not to bash them in any way.

I just wonder why this is so common and the reasons for this.

Please don’t hand my arse to me on a plate because as I say- this is not a teacher bashing thread.

VinoPleaseforOne yes of course I can understand how you feel.

If it is something DS really wants, how can you increase his chances of getting that part next time, given the feedback that you have received?

I wonder which would be better for his self esteem and learning:
a) he sets himself a goal and through practice, he gets a part which he shines at;
b) he gets a part because mum complains he didn’t get on last time, but every time he speaks to his feet Miss Jones tells him to “look up and use your big voice, BIG VOICE Billy!”
c) he carries on as is, learns at a level appropriate to his current ability range and sees that you value him in that role. “Wow I saw you joining in, and trying so hard when doing the actions. I couldn’t take my eyes off you! Maybe you could teach me?”

Some teachers just pick their favourites too. Every child should get an opportunity to play a big role (not necessarily a lead, but more than line) once in their childhood if the want too. It’s important they learn they won’t always get what they want, but also to know they can say no to doing what they don’t want to. My daughters drama/choir teacher was one to just choose the kids she liked the best. A couple of kids didn’t turn up to a concert because of the teacher, and I can’t say I blame them.

That’s a shit reason.

Teachers in primary are there to teach and bring the best out of children. Not to already ensure that some of them get squashed and feel worthless even before they’ve reached secondary school.

If a child in my class asked for a bigger part, I'd absolutely try to accommodate that. We always try to know our class, but I'm not about to give a huge solo to a child who appears less confident or shy.

@Needtobuildabridge that makes me very sad fur my dc tbh.
They are all much older now but it reminds me if dc primary years and the ASSUMPTION that because you didn’t hear a pip from him, then he obviously wouldn’t or wasn’t capable to doing X, Y and Z.
And because he wasn’t given those opportunities, well he never got to progress and develop.
True for having a part in a play but also playing an instrument, maths etc….

Such a huge loss Imo.
And one that took him years to get over.

If he really doesn’t want to go, I think it’s ok to let him miss it. It’s teaching him it’s ok to set boundaries. He didn’t demand a starring role, he just doesn’t want to stand at the back and be ignored. He might get a confidence boost by saying he won’t accept that.

I am so worried about speaking to them. Part of me thinks leave it and the other wants to say something.
I don’t want to appear petty or silly or piss them off as they are very nice and kind ( usually).

I feel petty even taking about it but his confidence is really low. He even said to me in the car on the way home from school on Monday that he was dumb and stupid and not as smart as other children in his class.

As I always say to him: we can’t all be good at the same things and that he is wonderfully kind, popular, amazing at swimming and cycling etc etc
So clearly he is feeling pretty bad about himself and now today has just made it all so much worse.

I just wish WISH they could have given him at least one line.

“I can see you really wanted a speaking part Fred. I wonder if you told Mr Smith that you would like one?”
“No mum you know I never make a fuss,”
“I know you never make a fuss Fred, but you know Mr Smith isn’t a mind reader. It is good to let people know your thoughts and feelings, i bet if you give it a go, Mr Smith will be please you spoke to him!”

The next day

”mum, I told Mr Smith and now I have a line! He said he didn’t know I wanted one, and I did the right thing to speak up, I feel great!”

Twenty years later
”Hi mum, I got a pay rise today. I asked my boss for one because I thought I was really adding to the team. I explained myself well, and she agreed!”

@VinoPleaseforOne and @MyriadOfTravels

It’s absolutely a valid reason. My children are never selected. I have talked to them about speaking up to ask for the opportunity.

In the workplace you give the work to the person who can best do the job with the least amount of drama. It’s no different at school. If your child wants a role they need to articulate their expectations and demonstrate they can be trusted to deliver.

My elder two both have ASD and ADHD. My youngest isn’t a strong reader. If they want the main roles they need to figure out how they can build trust that they are able to deliver. Asking for smaller roles, graduating to bigger roles over the years as they demonstrate success is what they should aim for.

Why wouldn't you say anything to the teacher? You could say that your son is really keen to participate and can they consider him for a speaking part in a performance. You then don't have to kick off if he doesn't get one. Lead by example and instead of being so feverishly deferential to teachers who may or may not be doing a good job, advocate for your child and make a polite request. If it comes to nothing at meat you tried.

In the gentlest way OP, this may be one of the reasons he wasn’t picked. He isn’t showing resilience and is wanting to drop out because he hasn’t got a main part. If he was really into performing he would try and make his small part steal the show and show the teacher how good he is ready for the next show.
At my school we ask children what parts they want. They may not actually want a main part, and they may not want to tell their parents that.

Ah at my sons primary school it was the kids of the mum who participated in everything school had- PTA, accompanying trips, cake sales, you name it she was there- it was very unfair on working parents who couldn't offer this commitment to school life

I think I will draft an email. It’s a succession of things really and his confidence is low which they ought to know too as they aren’t really doing much to support him with this. At least it feels that way.

I don’t want to ask for a part or a line. They’ve made their decision.
I just want them to be aware of how he feels .

It is a bit like it where we are to be honest.

@Aintnosupermum they have plenty of time to learn that.

Primary years are about building self confidence. It doesn’t happen when the children aren’t given opportunities, are routinely ignored etc…

Btw the dc I’m talking about in in the spectrum too. And extremely quiet. Or WAS. Until he actually had teachers who, instead if assuming it was all his fault and he needed to learn to hard way, took the time to build his confidence to so.
The way you worded it, it’s making it the child’s fault for not being over confident from the word go :( What a shame to put children in a position where they will fail when they are not 10yo yet.

His confidence is shit. At the last play he was sat on the back row. Despite being one of the smallest yet he was placed with the tallest children.

He is massively resilient: comes home occasionally upset telling
me events of the day and other times with really visible injuries ( say super scuffed and cut knees/ shins/ elbows etc ) yet no one at school knows anything about any of this as he says nothing and quietly gets on with his day, despite being hurt or sad.
So no, his resilience is strong.

No one ever questions why the fastest runners get chosen to compete for the school. Or why the best footballers make the school team.

There are very many opportunities for kids to shine.

Some shy/quiet people are actually brilliant in public speaking contexts. I wonder how many kids don't get their chance to shine in performance because they lack confidence in a classroom or playground setting. And of course excluding them might well harm their confidence further.

I have worked in schools and I believe this is a realistic take. Sometimes teachers have favourites, like all humans I guess, and they’re not shy about it. I’ve even some parts given to the ones with pushy/engaged parents and that has played a part in the decision to.

but then yes I do understand why they would pick the more confident ones for the lead role but it would be nice if they could give at least a speaking part to a less confident kid who has tried to put themselves forward! Surely at primary school age it’s as much about building confidence and boosting self esteem as it is about putting on a great show.

My children have confidence issues and I have worked with the school to address it.

They do activities outside of school they are naturally good at but also I am that crazy lady who hired a running coach because my children had zero grace. They aren’t going to win any races but they also don’t look wonky now when running. They are now confident at running which was the intended goal.

I suggest looking at the local children’s theater if this is something they want to explore. It doesn’t all have to happen at school and it doesn’t have to be a main part if they have low confidence. The pressure can break the remaining confidence they have left.

I agree that you should get your DS to ask his teacher, it is better coming from him .

Most teachers ask children to put their hands up who wants a bigger part or not as the plays where everyone gets an equal part can be terrifying for some kids. (And they are dull as can be to watch) there are kids who will learn the lines and the cues and remember where to stand etc and the poor teachers do need the core of the parts to be with those kids , then maybe a few others can be worked in who need more help . And lots of others very happy to be on stage in groups or background.

Also a consideration is that for some children this is their time to shine, they may be great at this but terrible at sports or not very academic. I say this as my DS just loves acting etc (still does at 16) and was lapped on sports day. So plays and performances were very important to him

“He said it makes him feel invisible.

As I say I would never mention anything to the teachers or to school”

He feels invisible, and you’re making him invisible. Why wouldn’t you say something to his teacher? Not a rude complaint you want him to headline - just a heads up that he’d love a line.

But is that not rude ? They’ve made their decision and he’s not been given a line . Feels a bit shit asking for it now as they clearly don’t want him to have one.

Could you email the teacher not asking for a change but literally what he told you - that he felt really brave auditioning and that he doesn’t feel it would matter if he was there or not. You can explain that you have told him about strengths and weaknesses and supporting the others.

m If it is not through this they might boost his confidence by asking him to speak in assembly or something else or just keep an eye out for him.

Why do they clearly not want him to have one?!
You’re projecting.
I doubt they don’t want him to.
More like, they didn’t think he wanted one.
I’m not suggesting you stomp in demanding a script re-write!
Just tell them how he feels and what he wants. That gives them a chance to possibly adapt this time (there’s not a lot of little kids’ stuff that can’t have an extra line written in) or know for next time that he wants to be more involved.

“More like, they didn’t think he wanted one.”

Scrap that, I missed that it had been done by audition so he did show he wanted to take part.

I still think you’re being overly personal projecting that they didn’t want him to have a line, like it was an active choice against him - when most likely it was more a choice for someone else.