Should the Uk get rid of the NHS?

[marinabillings]

As the UK are in 31 trillion in national debt. And strikes are raining down weekly. The government need to do something.

I propose that we should get rid of the NHS. Healthcare is the main expenditure of the uk government. More than doubling the next nearest (education). It is by far the most expensive sector that the government pays for

Although you may think that the NHS is the best thing to come into this country since sliced bread. In actual fact it is con. It provides the worst quality healthcare, while leaving you waiting for hours for serous injuries. This is due to a lack of qualified doctors and nurses, causing them to strike. However the honest truth is that we don't have to money to facilitate their needs. So I think something drastic needs to be done

Abolishing the NHS will free up space in the budget, which can be spent on other sectors such as education. Which will hopefully limit strikes. And make society run smoother. (Because I am sick of having to take time of work. To look after my children while their teachers are on strike)

I propose a benefits NHS system. Where the only people who can access free healthcare. Are people on benefits or low incomes (below a certain point) which will give them some security in terms of healthcare. However people who can offered it should pay for their own healthcare, which they do in most other countries.

This overall creates flexibility in the governments budget which they can spend elsewhere. To hopefully end strikes for the time being.

Any thoughts?

Education is no more or less important than healthcare. I don't disagree that the NHS is in efficient and badly run. But we are incredibly lucky to have it. I say this as a nurse and a patient.

Yes. It's such an unfair set up tge way it's run now.

In all honesty. I think every country and government should have an NHS. I think with evolution, modern society healthcare should be considered a basic need and right for humanity. Regardless of class or country and politics. I disagree with leaving humans to suffer or die over money. I know our service is not at its best, but I do believe it can be made adequate and if other countries adopted a similar approach worldwide perhaps less pressure? There is always private options anyway for those who have the money for it. I know people think the people have this entitlement and should live in some degree of poverty, but I'd like to see the bar on poverty rise rather than lower, aka as a world work on ensuring healthcare and homes for everyone, rather than accepting that everyone should keep having less... it's not really development with that mindset.

The government have fucked up dentistry so why not fuck up healthcare as well?
Too many old and disabled people anyway so why not just let them die?

Truthfully if this came about I would probably end up being better off going on benefits - and yes I know how low they are. But with a disabled husband and DD it is only my wage that lifts us out of benefits in spite of their expensive healthcare.

Also have you not noted the largest number of people in their fifties and sixties off long term sick? Many will be waiting for operations. Start charging and even more people will be out of the workforce.
It is very very basic economics that having a healthy workforce helps to build a strong economy. Not the only element obviously, but it does matter.

People on higher incomes are already paying more, funding many public services for the majority of society

Scraping the NHS doesn't magic up health care staff nor would it reduce need nor would a move to a european insurance based scheme, we have the lowest numbers of health workers in most of Europe, all comparable nations have many more - this is why the NHS is crap, magic up staff, like Labour propose and it will all be good.

I think the OP is just on a wind up esp as the UK's national gross debt is 2.5 Trillion, not 31 Trillion.

Do you really think if the government no longer had to fund the NHS fully they would use the money on paying teachers?

Exactly.

Do you want those on higher incomes to also use private healthcare, thus freeing up space on the NHS for those who need it? But then you also want them to pay more for the NHS as well?

If the government managed to get the public to accept this they would do the same with schools. Those on benefits get free schools, everyone else pays. And that policy would be more popular as less people have kids at school that would pay, than use the NHS.

It's more they're usually happy for other people to pay for it, and demand that the other people are sunshine and rainbows about it!

If you want private healthcare OP you can sort that out for yourself now.

I agree with this.

Dear god, no. Don’t be so stupid. I lived in a country without nationalised healthcare for 30 years. It was carnage. I waited 3 years for a cancer biopsy because I truly couldn’t couldn’t as a student afford the £1500 roughly it would have cost.

However the cancer treatment in this country is the cheapest and worst quality. Which is why the fatality rate of cancer patients is so high in this country. As people think they are getting good. If not satisfactory treatment. When in actual fact. They are getting sub-par treatment

But the fantastic thing about living in the UK is that everyone has the choice to use private healthcare. Unlike in my home country, we had no choice. If you want private healthcare. You can pay for it.

I expect many people don’t because they live in some fictional world where, without the NHS, they believe private healthcare would be cheaper. But it doesn’t work like that. (I have a PhD in health policy 🙄). Private healthcare is all about profit making. Nothing stopping you using it. Stopping everyone else from using universal healthcare isn’t going to make your private healthcare cheaper. So crack on.

That said, 30 years in a private insurance system and 10 years in the NHS, I can say nothing bad about the quality of NHS care. It’s been far superior and faster than my previous private care as someone with a long term condition.

But the could go private! I have family back home who have paid £100k for cancer treatment. No one is stopped from doing that here. Except my being able to afford it. Which is no different than anyone in my home country with privatised healthcare. If you want to choose to sell your house to afford it, you still can. The difference is that you still have the option for treatment without doing so, which is a wonderful relief for many people. It would be great if the NHS could afford treatments that are otherwise only available for people with loads of money. But actually it’s fantastic it can provide a decent quality of care to everyone no matter what money they have, without having to sell the family home.

The OP has entirely missed the point that private healthcare exists to make profit. Nope, it won’t be cheaper. Funny that

NI just goes into general taxation. The government is rubbish at running hospitals. I’d far rather the private sector ran hospitals but the government pay the bill. There is a presumption that that leads to an American system but actually most of Europe have systems that work way better. It could be that our government offer a good level of cover and those that want to can top it up with higher premiums, but the general idea that government don’t need to directly run the hospitals is key to me.

Huge jump to go from the NHS to an insurance model, there is no one size fits all in Europe, most are all different.

But whatever system you want or is implemented, there simply is not the numbers of people in the UK who are skilled or educated to become Dr's or HCP's and remember that any system requires social care is fixed and that needs around 300k people over the next few years.... where will they come from?

That is what is happening with most mental health. Have you seen the resultant scandals? It is bloody shocking what is happening.

Agreed. Just go private.

"The UK mortality rate for all cancers combined (excluding non-melanoma skin cancer) is ranked lower than two-thirds of Europe (rank 28 of 40).["

www.cancerresearchuk.org/health-professional/cancer-statistics/worldwide-cancer/mortality#heading-One