Difference between a long term ex-pat and an immigrant

[journeyofinsanity]

Just that really. Why do Brits abroad for 20 years call themselves expats rather than migrants/immigrants?

@JenniferBarkley

I don't think ex-pat is an internationally recognised term, I think it's only British people who use it. Open to correction on that.

Quite a few Americans working near us in Europe (tech industry) use the term.

From the BBC

Are maids expats? Yes they are

“It’s not about the colour of your skin, and it’s not about the salary that you earn,” says McNulty, an expat researcher and senior lecturer at the school of human development and social science at SIM University in Singapore.

“Are maids expats? Yes they are. Are construction workers in Singapore that you see on the building sites expats? Yes they are,” she says.

A business expatriate, she says, is a legally working individual who resides temporarily in a country of which they are not a citizen, in order to accomplish a career-related goal (no matter the pay or skill level) — someone who has relocated abroad either by an organisation, by themselves or been directly employed by their host country.

Er everyone knows that anyone can be an expat, I think you're misunderstanding the thread.

The question is why Brits think they're expats when they're really immigrants. So people are focusing on why British people in particular might be thinking this.

Exactly.

It came up again and again and again during Brexit.

Polish or Lithuanian immigrants in the UK = bad.
British expats in Spain or Dubai = good.

All just immigrants to their new country, and emigrants from their old countries.

Depends on where your income comes from/funds held to a certain extent. If you are living off U.K. based savings and/or pension in another country you are an expat. If you are working in another country permanently for a company based there with your income into a local bank account then your are an immigrant. There's no one definition but this seems as good as any.

My take on it is that if you are living in a country without citizenship of that country then you are an expat from the country where you do have citizenship. Once you obtain citizenship (or start the process of it) of the country in which you are now residing then you become an immigrant. But that is just my take from 30 years of living overseas and working my way through what I wanted to do regarding visas, residency and citizenship. Some people move and enter the immigrant pool immediately (or do it even before they move) other people move and are expats for years before they decide to switch to immigrants, and some people live in places for years as expats.

That's not true though, once you move country you become an immigrant. Deciding that some immigrants aren't actually immigrants contributes to the toxic discussions around immigration and the racism that many immigrants experience.

The question is why Brits think they're expats when they're really immigrants. So people are focusing on why British people in particular might be thinking this.

The question has been answered many times. Expat of any nationality is there to earn and go back home. Immigrants are there full time.

My company states I'm an expat. I consider myself an economic migrant.

So if the question has been answered many times, why do British pensioners living permanently in Spain call themselves expats? Because by your definition they're wrong. So why do they do it?

It means expatriate. Ie someone that lives outside of their own country. An immigrant is different. They are settling in a country as their own. Usually thwy don't seek to change their nationality or seek to obtain nationaility of their host country.

Ex-pat usually meant a temporary posting. Building an airport in the Gulf 1975, three year contract ends, go home Europeans or Americans.

Building an airport in the Gulf brown skin 5 year contract TCN. Third Country National
Running a railway in Rangoon 1920, retire at 50 or 55, go home.
Children usually sent home for schooling both cases.

@JenniferBarkley

I am both an immigrant and British expatriate.

I'm an immigrant because I was born abroad to foreign parents and moved to Britain as a child, becoming a naturalised Brit shortly afterwards.

Im also a British expat because I'm living in Portugal on a 2 year visa (which can be renewed if required).

This is generally how people use these terms. You can try to make it about race or class but I don't think many people do nowadays, not from my experience anyway.

Absolutely @MisschiefMaker but you're also an immigrant to Portugal.

''@ScentOfAMemory · Today 08:31
Because they tend to be white, middle class and in a villa in a Malaga. And they consider "immigrants" to be brown or Polish and either arriving on a boat at night or working in Costa (if they're lucky)''

Exactly.

I'm slightly fascinated as to why the label used to seems to be so important to some posters?

FWIW I think of myself as a Brit living overseas...

So do I.

It's called hypocrisy.

??

I'm still none the wiser about the basis for the whole thread TBH, or even the validity of the question posed by the OP.

The Op asked: "Why do Brits abroad for 20 years call themselves expats rather than migrants/immigrants?"...

If it's any help many Brits resident abroad, certainly in my experience, actually don't use the expat term...

Maybe a better, more open question to have asked would have been:

"How many Brits abroad call themselves expats, and why do those that use the term do so?"

I’m not sure that I agree with this as @MisschiefMaker is only in Portugal temporarily. Personally, I wouldn’t define someone with a two-year visa as an “immigrant” as they’re clearly don’t have the right to settle there longterm.

I’m an immigrant to the United States. I’ve been here over 10 years now and have recently become a naturalized citizen. Even though I may return to the UK at some point, calling me an expat would be daft after all this time.

I've lived and worked in four separate continents and have never, ever heard a single British person refer to themselves as an "immigrant".

They either didn't mention it or described themselves as "expats" (including people who had had been living and raising families in Australia for decades).

I live in the UK now and have never heard a British person refer to a foreigner as an "Indian expat" or a "Polish expat".

This is obviously anecdotal and I'm sure there are exceptions, but I know what conclusion I drew from it.

And to answer the original question, I also think it’s daft when people call themselves expats after 20 years in another country. Even if they do intend to return to the UK eventually, they’re clearly settled in their host country.

I also lived and worked in the USA for 6 years on J and L visas. The J and L visas are temporary work visas with no route to citizenship, even though they last up to 7 years. These are very clearly labelled "non immigrant visas". Living and working there did not make me an immigrant and if I'd introduced myself as an immigrant when getting through border security they would have accused me of immigration fraud and kicked me out of the country!

Immigrant seems to have taken on extra meaning but really anyone moving and staying is a migrant from one place to another

Many people who move don’t really think of themselves as immigrants, maybe because they are part of the society they join. Eg in London you’ll meet so many from different parts of the world they can just be Londoners too if they want

^ the point being that living and working abroad doesn't necessarily mean you're an immigrant in every case if there's no intent to remain.

@IBelieveInAThingCalledScience Here in the US, I honestly think that no one would understand the term “expat!” 🤣 It’s not part of the vocabulary, we’re all considered immigrants.