If a govt really thought that DV and other violence against women could be prevented...

[GoldenCupidon]

What could/would be done differently? In practical terms.

What I mean is, I often feel like there's a helplessness from the police and government, that some violence against women is inevitable and you can't predict it. But if we made a different assumption, could we be doing more?

The obvious answer for me is take victims seriously, act faster on reports, follow up on reports where the victim has stayed with the perpetrator, punish them more harshly and monitor their movement and contact after they've served their prison sentence.

Some times the police hands are tied until an assault has taken place, surely the time to intervene or act is before that stage.
The laws need to be changed for that to happen, though there needs to be enough evidence for a charge to be made to stop malicious reports.

thanks - do you think there could be some kind of register of VAW offenders like there is for sex offenders? It does seem like some men hurt partner after partner.

teach young boys about respect etc from a very early age and keep on all the way through school. tackling men in later life is rather 'horse has bolted'
purge the internet of porn would help, but i know that is very unlikely

I guess there is, in a way, with Sarah's Law or Claire's law or whichever it is, sorry. I just don't know that it's very closely monitored and puts the onus on us to check whether a potential new partner puts us at risk.

This. Carrick was reported to police NINE times over the years. It should have taken ONE report only. So whatever resourcing, priority-changing, and also understanding of the typical violence against women dynamics, that would be needed for ONE report to be enough.

On MN we are familiar with some of these typical dynamics but absolute awareness of these should be embedded in our institutions, eg:

• the most dangerous time for a woman with an abusive partner is when she is planning to leave/ leaving

• men's abusive/violent behaviour escalates - flashing, or punching a wall doesn't seem too serious but it will be sexual assault or domestic abuse next - so let's take the early signs more seriously

• women will drop charges and/or return to their partners. This does not mean that all is well.

• women are often trapped financially.

etc

You're right - the wisdom of MN is much better than most info that's "out there"

I just wish I understood why it doesn't already happen. I realise the police and probation are understaffed, overstretched and so on - but it's always been the same regardless of the political climate.

Need more access for women not entitled to benefits to access hostels etc. women financially abused or dependant are petrified of being homeless or having no means to flee. Emergency accommodation is financed by housing benefit etc and if you have any savings or assets even though you can't even access them it all works against eligibility.

The root causes need tackling- men's attitude towards women. This will be the hardest part because how do you change people's fundamental beliefs? Like a pp said, maybe this needs to start early in schools?

It's known that children that are exposed to DA are more likely to then be victims/perpetrators of DA as adults, so support for victims to leave abusive partners and not force contact with the abusive parent.

Victims need to be believed and more funding needed for support and the prosecution of offenders.

Need more access for women not entitled to benefits to access hostels etc. women financially abused or dependant are petrified of being homeless or having no means to flee.

There also needs to be much better access to decent therapy which is trauma informed to help women learn to listen to themselves, to enable them to spot red flags and have the confidence and self worth to walk away.

Like a pp said, maybe this needs to start early in schools

It does need to happen in schools, by the time a girl leaves school the chances are she’s already been sexually harassed and sexually assaulted - schools need to be much more on top of sexually aggressive behaviour and not write it off as boys will be boys.

Ooft! Million dollar question!

The roots go back millennia!

Yes attitudes to girls and women need to be addressed and educated on very very early on, sadly early years, school and public info campaigns can only do so much as mainly these attitudes are learned at home.

In terms of reaction to such behaviour yes we need much better responses from police, judicial system and government generally. It's pretty much legalised as there's very little deterrent to even violent rape, especially when committed by "celebrities" who seem able to rape and get away with it and get sympathy for having been "innocently accused"

It needs to stop being framed as a " women's issue" and frankly reframed as a men's one! Boys and men are the vast vast majority of perpetrators plus the kind of men more likely to behave like this tend to listen to men and not women.

So even the non violent men need to step the fuck up and start speaking out, saying that derogatory comments, rape jokes etc are unacceptable, where safe for them to do so stepping in if they witness aggression and publicly, vocally and loudly saying "enough!"

I'm lucky enough to know a few men in real life who have always been ones to pull up other men being arses

I've also started seeing on my own sm some men starting to do this and I'm hugely encouraging of them because it is about Damn time!

There's a LOT of work still needs to be done.

Better training of professionals to recognise coercive control.

Better relationships on tv as models.

Better education on relationships. Not just once in y9 but integrated in every subject.

Rewrite EVERY Hollywood rom com.

More places in refuges.

Increase benefits so women aren't financially reliant on horrible men.

More power to CSA to make men pay.

There have been calls for a register of DV offenders for years, at one point it looked like it was going to happen then it was knocked back.

Look at the work done by Laura Richards, she’s been campaigning on this for a very long time and spends a lot of time training police forces on what to look for in terms of signs of coercive control, etc.

www.thelaurarichards.com

The first thing that piece of shit Carrick said when arrested was I'm a policeman. Expected them to say oh that ok then.

I agree with all of the above.

• There should be an easy way for women to flee a violent relationship. It should not be dependent on charities and refuge spaces. (So, more/better council funding and more social housing).
• Give the CSA teeth and use it's powers as they do in America to enforce payment.
• The schools culture is a problem, as is the rise of violent, demeaning porn in the hands of young people. We need more research, more awareness and more training for professionals in this area.
• In addition to the DV offenders register, there needs to be a fast way to log 'minor' offences, such as flashing and harassment. Perhaps as part of a 999 app? That way, the police can build up a picture of where the harassment occurs (the built environment can encourage or discourage it) and who does it. Where there's a pattern, there's grounds for prosecution.
• The judicial system has to get a lot better at handling rape and domestic violence cases. In that respect, I was encouraged by Labours Survivor's Support Plan.
• Bring back the Sure Start Centres. They tackled a lot of deprivation at the earliest possible stage.

Above all, we've got to change our culture to value women in their own right, instead of some support creature for families/men. That's down to stories, media, film and song.

This... I was raised getting hit some weeks daily. Then my DF had the audacity when helping me leave a violent relationship that he said I must enjoy being hit for staying/ being with a man who does that... I didn't even reply ( i was, still am scared of my DF) I thought well hello you desensitised me to violence and raised me to believe it's the norm!!!!

More severe penalties. Rape sentences are a joke.

State funded women’s refuges and rape centres.

A female-only police force.

Stop saying things like 50:50 is suitable for all couples and it's the woman's fault for not earning enough or having a career when she's been down trodden anger while relationship and managing the dc alone.

When I was growing up women were much better looked after in a divorce, obviously in some circumstances 50:50 is fair but I'd go as far as to say women are being let down by the 'equality' drive over and over again.

My aunt divorced my shitty uncle after finally being so desperate anything was better than being with him. She 'got' the house and he had to rebuild his life. After he was gone she thrived got a job and my cousins benefitted immensely from the stability of their mother being safe and being able to stay in their family home and their school.

My uncle was my blood relative and my dad would go on and on about how unfair the divorce system was to him. But in the end one adult and two dc contributed a lot more to society than he ever would as a result of the 'inequality' of their divorce proceeds. We need to stop pretending life after dc is 'fair' a majority of women end up with the dc many not through choice, it leaves them automatically more vulnerable to staying for financial reasons.

The root causes need tackling- men's attitude towards women. This will be the hardest part because how do you change people's fundamental beliefs? Like a pp said, maybe this needs to start early in schools?

There are a lot of things that we could do. For instance, it is now established that women are more at risk of violence if they live in the vicinity of strip clubs - and objectifying women in this way also leads to more violence against women in general in society. It would be quite easy not to grant licenses for this type of "entertainment". Of course that would mean viewing women's safety as being more important than giving men the right to see women strip. Ditto for porn.

Other measures (some already mentioned):

• taking all crime against women seriously - voyeurism etc often escalates
• not allowing anyone to keep guns at home, and not allowing anyone with a history of DV to use handguns
• making it easier and less traumatic for women to report rape and improve conviction rates
• not allowing any men with dodgy attitudes towards women and even accusations/convictions of violence to be granted power in the workplace
• ensuring that women are able to access single-sex spaces and ask for female doctors if they want them
• educating young people on violence against women. I personally don't think porn is innocuous in any form and I think that it is wrong to teach that using porn is a personal choice that doesn't affect others.

It's because we're focussed on women and what women need - whereas governments aren't. I'm not normally one to bring up the patriarchy but if men were abused and left destitute they'd 'understand' how to resolve that issue.

So many good ideas here, you're so right about schools. I know a kid whose dad didn't even bother to meet her and who's now being sexually bullied by boys at her primary school which the teachers won't deal with - every time I see her I think, that kid could end up so vulnerable to bad men as her expectations have been set at absolutely rock bottom. (unfortunately I'm not in a position to change any of this) And who's fault is that - well the dad's obviously for not bothering to see or contribute to his child and the teachers for having such low expectations of boys themselves. Cannot believe the likes of pulling up/down clothes, unconsensual touching etc is being normalised and it scares the fuck out of me.

A register is exactly the kind of thing that is needed but would be extremely unpopular if suggested I think, so probably a no go, plus, would it actually deter women from getting into a relationship with somebody? Especially if the introduction of it had been controversial and had a lot of backlash. But it is a really interesting thought experiment - why isn't there a register like there is for sex crimes?

There are clear patterns of male violence and I think it would be worth more follow up from incidents in the lower parts of the pyramid.

The court system needs a whole overhaul - women cannot protect their children from violent fathers and that exposes children to more trauma. Not all traumatised children will go on to become abusers, but some will. And all children would benefit from less trauma.

Social services needs proper funding and resourcing. Again not all traumatised children go on to be abusers but all of them would benefit from better support and intervention.

The benefits system should actually be a safety net so that women can leave violent partners. Refuges should be plentiful and safe havens.

Free and abundant mental health support for all on the NHS. Might help some would be abusers to change. Would help victims to leave and make sense of what happened to them.

All police, social workers, family court workers, healthcare staff, teachers given full training in endemic sexism, male violence, toxic masculinity, domestic abuse.

Currently most people, including the ones that really really need to, don't understand the mechanics of domestic abuse. And very few people even understand the existence of endemic sexism, sexed male violence etc. I think that's why most people think it's bigoted to object to transwomen having access to female only spaces.