Manufacturing womens clothes to fit

[Whitefly]

There are petite ranges, various trouser and arm length clothes.

What about pelvic and bust sizes?

I have only seen bravissimo make various bust shape tops, are there any other high street stores?

What about pelvis, some women have a mans pelvic bone higher up (think Kate Middleton) until they get to the hip area and some women have an hourglass/violin pelvis. Why do clothes manufacturers think we all have a man's pelvis?

How unpleasant to do scribe some women as having a ‘man’s pelvis’.

How odd to be offended by a reasonably accurate description that captures the why it happened - because it's a male default

Surely it's better to be offended at the clothing industry who are failing to provide clothes for different shapes

If your body shape is out of fashion it can be very difficult to get clothes that you can wear

It’s a thing; when my DM did midwife training circa 1960 they used to talk about some women having an ‘android’ pelvis, i.e one with a narrow outlet like a man’s. It was supposed to be a risk for difficult deliveries. Not sure if they use that terminology any more, or even whether the theory still holds in current obstetric practice.

Seems a bit odd, and gynaecological, to relate that to clothes fitting though. While I agree that high street clothes could do with a better range of fit points (bust darts anyone?) I’m not sure that ‘violin pelvises’ (whatever the hell those are) have anything to do with the price of fish. Or skirts.

It's not unpleasant, it is merely descriptive. My pelvis is not what you would call a female shape either, straight up and down, and not much gap between the top of the pelvis and the bottom of my ribs, so not a lot of waist either. I've always found it very difficult to find trousers to fit properly.

You can't make affordable clothing to fit all the possible varieties

Under current economic models anyway

I can never understand why women's jeans are sold by waist size even if they are low rise and don't reach anywhere near your waist. I find it really tricky to get clothes to fit - particularly dresses and trousers/jeans. I'd love a better approach of being able to buy based on multiple measurements (perhaps I just need to be rich and have made to measure clothes!)

I think the problem is that (high street, at least) clothes are now made all over the place, different factories and different countries, different fit models for every garment. There's no standardisation, and they're cut as cheaply as possible so they'll 'fit' but look crap on most women. (Hence the oversized trend, I reckon.)

15-20 years ago I knew that Oasis clothes fit me well as a busty hourglass, but Warehouse had no room for boobs so I could only buy stretchy tops and dresses there. River Island trousers fit me well, but M&S were always too tight on the waist. Monsoon were always a good fit except for zip-up dresses. You could reliably go to your favourite shop and find an outfit that fitted and suited you.

Nowadays I've no idea - finding something that fits is pure luck. A dress I bought last year in Fatface doesn't fit me in the same size, different colour this season, because a poorer quality fabric has been used. It's so annoying, and is entirely caused by fucking capitalism.

It's only relatively recently that mass produced clothing has been widely available and with the expectation that it should fit 'off the peg'

It's cheap because it's mass produced to be fit to the 'block' that clothing producer designs to. It stops being cheap if they have to provide a range of options.

Within my living memory (and I'm well under 50) there was much more expectation that people should be able to, or would have easy access to someone who could make minor adjustments clothes do they fit or make basic items themselves.

As someone with a large bust but narrow hips I can never get anything to look flattering off the peg so I'm very familiar with my sewing machine.

Buying ready made clothes and complaining they don't fit perfectly is a bit like buying a ready meal and complaining it's not been cooked fresh from scratch to your liking.

I'd also like clothes for long torsos, I have a very long back, particularly my crotch-waist distance. Low cut trousers are not decent on me! High cut trousers are mid rise and "normal". I often have to wear long camisoles under top in order not to flash my midriff at all and sundry. I'd like;

Tops that reach my hips
Trousers that cover them
Dresses with waistlines that are lower than my boobs

I have some limited success with tall ranges (even though I am not particularly tall), but these generally just add length to the bottom.

Under any economic model, surely. You can't make clothes to fit every variety of body shape without them being expensive

it's only recently that long leg lengths have been fairly readily available. Back in the 80s and 90s it was only a couple of high street manufacturers and only a few styles.

I'm slightly longer in the torso and have found Hush and Sweaty Betty particularly good

Interesting @taniapear I have never bought anything from either of them! They are not really my style, but I'll have a look.

A company called Alvanon make the vast majority of mannequins for manufacturing. They scan literally millions of bodies every few years and create mannequins based on current body shapes.

As previous people have said, they just have to create an average.

Unfortunately because this company has a virtual monopoly on mannequins they cost a huge amount of money, so companies don't often update their stands and you end up with companies making clothes for body shapes from previous generations.

If you want a perfectly fitting garment you need to go to a tailor or dressmaker who can make something for you, or alter something to fit.

Then you need to maintain your current body shape and posture so it continues to fit.

Caroline Criado Perez has talked about this in Invisible Women. Her newsletters have talked about shoes designed for women's feet - which are not just smaller versions of men's feet, they're different shapes. I think she found some good trousers with decent pockets too.

I think she found some good trousers with decent pockets too

I started dressmaking to fit my bust, it became a passion when I realised I could also put massive pockets in everything too .

The only clothing I buy ready made these days are underwear, tights, socks and shoes.

I'd like a clothing manufacturer to appreciate that you can be plus sized (I'm 20-22) and also only be just over 5ft tall. Not all large women are tall.

Because it costs too much. They aim for the middle of the anthropological curve.

Youre talking about made to measure. What’s in the shops is mass produced ready to wear.

Bras are different. But basically any women who , say is a 14, will mainly fit into any 14. That’s what manufacturers like to think anyway. It would be horrendously expensive to do what you want. That is what dressmakers are for. And the manufacturers don’t care anyway!

Yup. I’m a size 22 that doesn’t also make me 7 foot tall. I only live in leggings and dresses because I can’t get trousers that fit even remotely. I can sew basics but hate having to take half a foot of fabric off something 😭

As several PPs have pointed out, what you are wanting is 'made to measure' clothing because no ready to wear clothing will realistically fit every single body shape

If your body shape varies a significant amount away from "average" then it is probably worth learning to use a sewing machine or learn to love elastic waist clothing!

Hip dips, violin hips, whatever you want to call that body shape, it's describing body structure, no idea why this is offensive.

Why can't there be a narrow pelvis and wider pelvis option?

Yes why are our shoes made with a small man's foot template?

I can understand why a petite range is available as less fabric.

Why are long limbed women with long arms and legs catered for on the high street and not told to visit a taylor?

Why can't there be a narrow pelvis and wider pelvis option?

so, you'd make clothes for people with a wide pelvis plus short body length, long legs, big bust, broad shoulders, narrow waist and all the other combinations of those things?

Why can't there be a narrow pelvis and wider pelvis option?

People who have very narrow hips would I imagine just buy their clothing in smaller sizes and perhaps opt for trousers styles which are more suited to that shape. Buying jeans designed for men is also an option.

Hip/Pelvis width clearly isn't the only variable in women's body shapes. Do you honestly expect high street clothing shops who are trying to make money to manufacture their clothing in a wide range of dress sizes whilst also having additional options for long/short torso, long/short limbs, wide/narrow pelvis, big/small bust, broad/sloped shoulder, narrow waist/ no waist.... the list of options would be endless!

Unfortunately no, and bravissimo have stopped their clothing range over a year ago alas. Nothing actually fits me

Why are long limbed women with long arms and legs catered for on the high street and not told to visit a taylor?

I think most of them would argue that they aren't particularly well catered for, much like petite people. There is a very small range in some shops but not equal to the 'normal' range.

There is no moral duty to provide you with clothes that fit, shops sell what will sell with a the margin they want to sell them at and have no obligation to alter their business structure if it doesn't work for them. Doing the kind of range of options you are suggestion would create huge price increases for all clothes and would still only scratch the surface of the kind of adjustments people would want.

the gap in the market you are suggesting there is , is probably mostly already filled by tailors/ dressmakers.

making your own clothes is increasingly popular thanks to social media and 'fast fashion' offering mostly poorly fitting cheap fabric. checkout #sewistsofinstagram etc to get a flavour of how many people are making their own clothes