Behaviour management charts in primary school

[foggyoutside]

My child's school uses behaviour management charts (a rainbow, sun, cloud type system or traffic lights with kids moving up and down throughout the day depending on behaviour) and the more I read about them the more I would like the system to change.. I wondered if anyone's school has moved away from them and what they do instead? I want to talk to school about it but be able to suggest alternatives and not just articulate why I think the chart is wrong!

By the same token why don't parents of naughty children wind their necks in and focus on teaching their own children to behave

You say 'struggling children'? I assume you mean naughty children there. Children do not need to be 'supported', they need reprimanding, and for there to be consequences for their bad behaviour

My DD struggles in school, she’s not naughty, she has an extensive trauma history which impacts every area of her life including the ability to focus, concentrate and follow instructions. She copes in school because the HT is very aware of the impact of trauma and has ensured staff are trained to manage behaviour in positive ways.

I noticed your “NT kids of course” footnote but not all kids who struggle are ND, or indeed naughty - there are many reasons why a child might find it difficult to cope in class, some temporary and some longer term. Those issues are private and often unknown to other children and parents who just see “bad behaviour”. Shaming kids doesn’t do anything to help them be in class and learn.

Brilliant theory Margo unfortunately children need a certain amount of teaching to be able to use self guided learning so it comes down still to a teacher having to actually teach initially

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus if only it were just theory.

Your understanding and views on teaching are coming across very dated. Teachers guide children in their learning, it isn't the rote dictation and dissemination of information that it may once have been years ago and that your responses suggest you believe still is modern teaching now.

Mate, 2005 called and wants its “Guide on the Side” poster back.

Tbf I’m secondary where we are more in favour of telling the kids the stuff they need to know than hoping that they learn to solve quadratics through group work. But surely lockdown put to bed the claim that primary kids just need a little input before going off on an independent journey of discovery.

And when I listen to my primary colleagues describing being spat at, hit, called cunts or having chairs thrown across the room, the idea that if they can’t stop teaching to focus all their attention on a private behaviour conversation with a kid to get to the bottom of their behaviour while the class behave beautifully behind them then they are “ineffective” sounds like teacher-blaming bullshit.

For lots of children with sen, 'charts' do not work. They create anxiety, often the cause of 'behaviour' in the first place and this leads to more problems.

It is just a theory because it needs children who a. Behave overall and b. Have enough knowledge to access the work

@noblegiraffe I'm one of those primary colleagues who has had windows smashed by 5yos throwing a table through the window yet still managed to facilitate learning whilst managing behaviour (in an observation by SLT ironically, who sat and took notes and did nothing to help) 😂 so, mate, I'm happy to carry on the conversation about effective and ineffective T&L but let's not derail this thread any further.

Absolutely ridiculous these are still used. Awful .
Taught for decades and I'm horrified I used them.

I'm one of those primary colleagues who has had windows smashed by 5yos throwing a table through the window yet still managed to facilitate learning whilst managing behaviour

What's astonishing with that anecdote is the idea that having a kid in your classroom smashing windows is 'managing behaviour', or the idea that a quiet conversation with that child while the class remained in the classroom trying to get on with some group work would be appropriate in that scenario.

If you have a conversation with little Johnny about wh up he was making a poor behaviour choice and then he continues to make poor behaviour choices he needs a consequence. A behaviour chart is a visual reminder that you are on your last chance. In my class. If you make the right choice, your name can be moved back on to a a different part of the chart. I don't have a vertical chart though, just pictures on different parts of the wall.

My understanding from my ds school is they reward good behaviour and earn as a class for a treat. Any bad behaviour is addressed individually and they often have a story board done with them to explain why the should not behave in that manner. Havemt seen any or heard of any kind of chart of the day. They do also have a board about how they are feeling that they move their names on and so teachers know if they need to be away of any particular behaviour

In response to a behaviour that might be managed on an 'up and down' behaviour chart, as this thread is reflecting on, then yes. It's pretty standard. Extreme behaviours such as in the example I gave, are not always standard and would still need to be managed in an appropriate way alongside the other children, not forgetting the rest of the class. It sounds almost like you yourself would not manage this extreme behaviour or the other children in this situation? Hopefully you wouldn't ignore it.

You sound like you're exhausted of the profession (if indeed you're still active in it) like many teachers currently are. Like I said before, happy to continue the discussion with you but let's not digress. Otherwise, enjoy your evening.

No one has ever smashed windows in my lessons so perhaps you should be asking me for behaviour management tips....

However, if a child is displaying violent and dangerous behaviour, the class should be removed to a safer place, not be told to sit there through it. It's not a positive that you kept them in the room.

As a parent I'd be horrified if my DD were in that class, and probably remove them from the school.

It is interesting that the more we have moved away from clear systems the worse behaviour has become.

What I have certainly noticed is that with the move towards endless discussions of behaviour with pupils instead of clear sanctions, by the time they get to secondary they see everything as a negotiation. "I'll take my coat off if you let me sit next to Charlie" or "If I'm good will you take off my detention?".

Wastes so much time that could be spent learning.

It sounds almost like you yourself would not manage this extreme behaviour or the other children in this situation?

Says the one who is normalising windows being smashed in classrooms and carrying on regardless.
The rest of the class should have been removed for their safety if this story is true.

My dd’s school took up therapeutic behavioural management. There was a lot of good stuff about self-awareness using colours instead of adjectives to label your own mood really simply. eg the “green” state of mind represented feeling engaged, feeling positive, ready to learn.

But somehow as a package it didn’t translate to better behaviour. The kids who had previously always been on a behaviour warning, were still the ones losing control of their emotions, ripping doors off cupboards, fighting, flooding the bathroom on purpose, tipping their water bottle in someone’s bag, running out of the classroom screaming and yelling, swearing at the HT etc. And this is during class time, don’t even ask about lunch breaks!

When you have 4 or 5 in a Class of 32 who behave like that, it is absolutely disruptive to the whole class and definitely the other kids have an interest in knowing what, after a few years, is being done to solve the problem. Even if the answer is “bugger all”.

Margo34
It does take a long time to have a restorative conversation. Your idea to give the class a task to do while you do this is a massive part of the issue. Dress it up however you like you are leaving the class to their own devices while you spend time on talking through the disruptive behaviour. This is not fair on the 29 others. What about the child with send? What about the child with weak literacy or simply what about the children who need their teacher to pay attention to them and their behaviour?

This.

As someone whose job includes observing staff, I'd definitely be more concerned about being in a classroom with some who carries on teaching whilst someone smashes a window than someone who deals firmly and immediately with the problem.

I'm not convinced the anecdote is true much learning would be going on whilst someone smashed a window. Or that a member of SLT would sit idly by.

Agree with noblegiraffe. Everything in our schools is becoming something that kids have to be coaxed into. The focus should be on personal responsibility and behaviour for learning.

I'm glad you have clarified that you would manage an extreme behaviour, and then went so far as to explain how you would do so, not that I asked. Although you did have me worried. Sitting there would not be managing the situation, I'm glad we agree.

the focus should be on personal responsibility and behaviour for learning.

Agree. That includes all children, not just the dysregulated ones that may need more support. And it doesn't start or end just at school.

Suggesting that any teacher might just sit there while a kid smashed windows is even more batshit than the suggestion that the teacher continue teaching the lesson.

Which is why I don't believe that's what your SLT observer did.

Restorative blah blah blahs will be one of those things they’ll look back and laugh at when all the bullied children reach an age where they realise the gaslighting and resent the wasted education and are vocal about it.

I recognise that schools are struggling with unprecedented and increasing levels of challenge with no funding but surely quick and easy classroom management tools like this save time and get to the heart of what all children intrinsically understand works in a classroom - something that is ‘strict but fair’.