Behaviour management charts in primary school

[foggyoutside]

My child's school uses behaviour management charts (a rainbow, sun, cloud type system or traffic lights with kids moving up and down throughout the day depending on behaviour) and the more I read about them the more I would like the system to change.. I wondered if anyone's school has moved away from them and what they do instead? I want to talk to school about it but be able to suggest alternatives and not just articulate why I think the chart is wrong!

An effective teacher manages behaviour, expectations and learning in the conditions and environment which they are working within. @noblegiraffe If other children are sat waiting then learning isn't being managed in that moment - why? Does that teacher then need support (from another member of staff, or support with planning, support through funding for a TA or resources, support from SLT, training, etc etc, whichever fits most appropriately)? Do the other children need to work on managing how to cope in a world with distractions? Does the disruptive child/children need support to self-regulate or whatever caused their disruption in the first place? Probably yes to all of those, and more.

How disruptive behaviour is managed and addressed is not little Maoam/little Johnny/little Joe Bloggs' business. What is Little Maoam/Little Johnny/Little Joe Bloggs' business is for them to know that it has been dealt with in line with whatever behaviour policy the school uses (and apologies issued if appropriate etc etc) - an effective teacher would do that. Depends on the incident/behaviour/level of involvement of the child and involves teacher judgement.

All children in school these days are learning to cope with distractions. That's not just the responsibility of the teacher or school.

DDs school only use a visual or red/yellow/green /gold in EYFS as the younger children need a visual reminder. In Year 1 they are just given a yellow (basically a warning) or red card and ‘time to reflect’ if on red, there’s no green or gold by then. Then the slip is handed to parents at pick-up.

DD1 is autistic and an excellent rule follower, has never had yellow or red and loved seeing her name on green or gold in nursery and reception. I think the visual reminder does help in the younger years and I wouldn’t want it taken away at that stage. They’re too young to remember an earlier conversation about behaviour when there’s a lot of other distractions around and they’re playing. From year 1 on I don’t think it’s as necessary though as they can remember that they’ve already had a warning and a conversation about their behaviour. I suspect DD2 will need a lot of reminding and I’m expecting some yellows and red from her 😬

My sons school uses this in reception particularly at the start of the year. It helps them to learn the expeditions. Behaviour expectations there are high and the children meet those expectations.

Feeling shame is important step to feeling remorse for your actions.

He's in year 1 now and they have points for good behaviour / work / values etc. certificates for star of the week, values, effort and consistently good behaviour. They also have traffic light cards. The first one is a stop and think. Encouraging them to stop the behaviour that isn't wanted and then think about changing it.

My concern with the system of accumulation of points / credits / badges for good behaviour is this is also a weak system that is easily skewed.

This was in my dc primary and the kids who got the certificates for reaching a milestone of credits were the louder ones who would spend time telling the teacher they have done thir work, tidied up, put their hand up.... While simultaneously being the little t*t that was bullying and behaving appallingly but that wasn't counted when it came to credits, so some of the worst behaved pupils who wanted to pull good behaviour out of the bag and be a loud personality gained credits.

It was a mockery of the whole system and many children spotted it, became disheartened and the quieter, consistently well behaved ones who didn't stand out amongst peers to staff for goid behaviour, because they were like tgat all the time hence it was expected of them and it was their baseline, weete not often rewarded.

Both of my dc spotted that children who needed to be continually acknowledged or else would start misbehaving accumulated more credits. Hence, many children that should have had consistently good behaviour weren't rewarded as they failed to stay engaged with the scheme.

My little one starts school in September.
If I see any sort of chart like this I will be suggesting we move away from it.
Children need to be helped with their emotions. Validating their feelings is the way forward then helping them with whatever emotion they are experiencing.
The colour monster is a good example. I seen a school with this example pinned up. Each kid were able to pin onto the board whatever colour monster they were experiencing. Red was anger. If any pupils pinned up the red colour monster then that will have a moment to discuss their feelings with the teacher and hopefully help them to move forward.
Loved this concept. The pastoral care at this particular school was seen as excellent by all parents. 🤩

@Margo34 i agree with you. And there is no such thing as a perfect student.

However, when the things you listed come into play, like lack of staff/support, the disruptive behaviour does become the business of other parents. It can be a very stressful and difficult situation all round.

All the children have the right to feel safe in class and to access the curriculum.

"Tell your children to wind their neck in and worry about themselves not their peers". Rather a big assumption you are making there.

Children need to see that other children get told off for behaving badly. It is plain wrong for them to see other kids getting away with it. Children who behave well need positive reinforcement.

You say 'struggling children'? I assume you mean naughty children there. Children do not need to be 'supported', they need reprimanding, and for there to be consequences for their bad behaviour. They need to learn to do as they are told. Otherwise we have anarchy.

<Obviously this all relates to NT children>

@tinatea I agree with you to a point. That's a lot to ask of a teacher to validate 30 emotions ...

We do/did a lot at home with naming emotions. For example we'd say it's ok to feel angry but it's not ok to throw things. Here are some ways to express that emotion that are ok ...

The charts I think help with a visual reminder that their actions were wrong. Not their emotions.

An effective teacher manages behaviour, expectations and learning in the conditions and environment which they are working within. @noblegiraffe If other children are sat waiting then learning isn't being managed in that moment - why?

Well, it's because Lucy pissed around, and then because there was a shit behaviour management system that meant that the teacher had to abandon teaching the kids to chat to Lucy about her struggle to not piss around, that gave Charlie and Billy the perfect opportunity to also start pissing around while the teacher was distracted.

And guess what. When the teacher was then talking to Charlie and Billy about their behaviour, Lucy took the opportunity to piss around again. Because, you know, the consequence of pissing around is to have a chat with the teacher rather than actually cracking on with the work.

Agree, it's stressful for the teachers and school staff, too - the whole school community has a right to feel safe at school, children and staff. But lack of staff/support is not down to the teachers (that's a whole thread in itself).

Thank you that's a great example of not being an effective teacher right there, "the teacher has to abandon teaching the kids". And yes, naming and shaming is a "shit behaviour policy" I'm so glad you agree!

Thank you that's a great example of not being an effective teacher right there, "the teacher has to abandon teaching the kids". And yes, naming and shaming is a "shit behaviour policy" I'm so glad you agree!

The 'shit behaviour policy' I was referring to was your idea that the teacher should stop teaching to have a conversation with a child that is pissing around about their struggle to stop pissing around during the lesson, instead of teaching the class.

Bollocks to your idea that an 'effective' teacher can simply stop teaching a class to have a private conversation with a kid at any given point in the lesson.

What a depressing view of humanity.

Children who behave well are inevitably 'rewarded' by easy social interactions with their peers and adults in the classroom, being ready to learn and progress, and the intrinsic satisfaction of knowing they've understood and met the expect behaviour. They're fine. They do not need to worry about how other children's behaviour is dealt with by the adult in charge. Most children are in this category because they are primed to seek social approval, especially that of powerful adults with whom they have a personal relationship (like their class teacher), and this is why 'anarchy' is an unlikely outcome.

And if young children are making poor behaviour choices? Absolutely it's up to us as parents and teachers to support them to make better ones. Not just punish the poor behaviour out of them. 🙄

@notsurewherenotsurewhy this is the most accurate understanding of children in a classroom I've seen in a long time. Very well articulated!

@noblegiraffe I didn't at one point say that a teacher should stop teaching 😂

So now they're teaching and having a private conversation with a kid about their struggle to stop pissing around at the same time and if they can't do this then that is their fault for not being 'effective'?

Behaviour charts were one of the many aspects of school my ASD DS struggled with.
At one point his name fell off the chart and, because noone had any cause to move it, this wasn't noticed for some weeks.
With no explicit feedback on his behaviour DS began to worry that he was "naughty". By the time it was noticed and replaced, a term had gone by and DS was worried that "The teachers will get fed up with me and I'll be expelled".
The behaviour chart was not the whole problem, of course.
I think on some level DS knew that he wasn't capable of meeting the expectations of school. (Although he dealt with this by spacing out and swimming, rather than becoming "naughty") But the behaviour chart became a focus for that anxiety.

@noblegiraffe you are getting this spot on.

Lovely motion for a teacher to spot a red monster for angry feeling. When does the teacher find time to talk to the child about this? Or 10 children? Or 15?Or 20? Or all 30?

Children who behave well are inevitably 'rewarded' by easy social interactions with their peers and adults in the classroom, being ready to learn and progress, and the intrinsic satisfaction of knowing they've understood and met the expect behaviour. They're fine.
I'm not sure the child in question sees or recognises this "reward" though do they? At this stage they're too young to know that their "reward" will benefit them in 4 years time or when they start secondary, or uni or a job. I don't think my DC has ever felt "intrinsic satisfaction" because they behave well in class.

They do not need to worry about how other children's behaviour is dealt with by the adult in charge.
They might not need to worry about it, but they do get offended and demotivated by it. My DD has complained about being told off for something that some of the boys don't get told off for. Simply because for her it counts as "bad behaviour" but the teacher is grateful the boys aren't being as obnoxious as they usually are, so they don't get reprimanded.

stimming not swimming obviously.

And depending on year group....

-Teaching them to tie laces

-helping toilet train

-teaching how to use knife and fork

....And so on.

And of course giving every child the exact same levelma of attention!

I mean @noblegiraffe come, on its easy remember. . Teachers only work mon-fri 9-3 and those lovely long holidays....🤣

@noblegiraffe you're obviously just not a good enough teacher, you should be able to multi-task, teach a whole class and deal individually with every single pupil at the same time. Yes I am being sarcastic. Some parents really do expect teachers to be superhuman, parents need to take responsibility for their children's behaviour.

Well what's that? All i can see is a link to a company selling 'therapeutic solutions'. It tells me nothing!

It’s a terrible process for kids who have trauma in their background who feel quite enough shame as it is. Oddly enough my kids school seem able to manage challenging behaviour without naming and shaming kids, so it must be possible to do it while teaching without shaming kids.

Your understanding and views on teaching are coming across very dated. Teachers guide children in their learning, it isn't the rote dictation and dissemination of information that it may once have been years ago and that your responses suggest you believe still is modern teaching now.
So yes, children can learn while an effective teacher talks to a child, or 2 or 3, or a group of children. And if not, then as I said above - more support is needed in some way shape or form to achieve that, for the teacher, for the children in managing distractions, for the schools.