Landlords are selling up in droves

[MNisMyGuiltyPleasure]

I am a landlord. Not full time but I have a couple of flats I let out. I have been for many years and bar twice, have always had good tenants. I am still friendly with a few of them who moved out to buy their own place, in fact. I go above and beyond what's expected of me because I want my tenants to enjoy living in my flats. However I am getting more and more concerned about the hike in costs related to letting properties. This has already started driving many, many LLs to sell up, with the result that the number of private rentals is dropping, driving rents up. And I'm serious thinking of selling up and finding somewhere else to invest my pension.

This morning another landlord shared this article www.property118.com/property118-founder-selling-his-best-property/ and this started a conversation about the risks of letting, which are only making more people get out of the lettings market.

So to all those people calling landlords greedy, and saying they shouldn't put rents up: if they are, it's likely they are because their costs related to letting are going up, and they need to cover themselves to meet additional costs should tenants not pay (cost of living or whatever other reason). My accountant last year told me to assume I will only make money from my flats when I come to sell them, and to budget to break even at best until then.

I get that shelter is something everyone should have, but please don't blame landlords for the hike in cost of private rents. Because if they all left the market (which may well happen at some point), the situation would be worse, not better, for tenants.

I am sure I will get a few people to flame me for the above, of course. If they do, I'd love to hear if they are renting, letting, or if they own their homes.

I remember when they announced that landlords wouldn’t be able to put their mortgage interest against tax and people being gleeful that the landlords would be stung by this.

I just thought, Are you really that stupid?

You are going to have to pay more rent.

There was also this thought that landlords would sell up in droves and house prices would come down and people pull them afford to buy.

Landlords didn’t sell up in any noticeable numbers and house prices are more expensive than ever and rents have skyrocketed because landlords need to pay for government legislation

You are choosing to rent it out. You comply with all the legislation and put up with the hassle that can come with being a landlord. You may have acquired it accidentally but you are choosing to keep it via renting it out. You are an intentional landlord. I was an accidental landlord for a few days when I had to take over the reins from my father because he had dementia and 2 rental properties. After the initial panic I was an intentional landlord because I decided that was the best way to safeguard his assets.

What is not accurate about saying I provide a service ie a place to live for people who need it?

And I never said what my motive was. Who cares what the motive was, I’m still providing a service. Would you question the mother of the owner of the corner shop that provides you with milk?

Motive not mother obvs

@Kabalagala

Choosing to rent a house out for decades, for nothing but profit is not even remotely "accidental".
Do what you want with the house but don't try and pretend like you're doing some public service.*
*
But this is where you are wrong, I'm certain that if you asked my tenants they would say that I am providing them a service, which they are grateful for. At the point that they moved in they had been living in one bedroom (there's 5 of them) of a bed & breakfast 20 miles away for 8 weeks because they were homeless and the council had nowhere to put them and there wasn't a single private rental available in our town.

What is not accurate about saying I provide a service ie a place to live for people who need it?

You didn't build it, you didn't move it somewhere more accessible. You didn't do anything to 'provide' it except add profit to yourself.

People need to read their Marx

If you can find them to put into court. Our council spent 15 years chasing a rogue landlord lots of properties. Overseas companies, the owners and housing stock bounced/sold from one shell company to another.

Seeing the children dying in mouldy housing associations properties really shocked me. I naively thought councils would have been the best landlord to have

What is not accurate about saying I provide a service ie a place to live for people who need it?

You can only claim to provide housing if you build it.

Landlords provide housing in the same way that ticket scalpers provide tickets.

I rent out a house and it doesn’t cover its mortgage. A family member lives in it at below market cost because they have never worked and are on benefits. If they weren’t renting from us, we’d have to go back to the previous situation where we were subsiding their rent to another landlord. Last year it needed new carpets and paintwork. This year it will need a new kitchen. We are resigned to this for as long as the relative is alive since there is no council housing available, and they cannot afford anywhere else around here. We desperately need proper investment in council housing.

You are uninformed. There is both work and hassle involved in being a landlord. Why do you think many are selling up? Easier to invest money in other ways.
Some hire agents to manage their property. Do you think they do nothing too?

@ArseInTheCoOpWindow there are so many houses up for sale on Rightmove. The reasons FTB's can't afford to buy a house is either they don't have enough for deposit, don't pass credit checks, don't earn enough for multipliers, or don't pass bank stress tests. None of these things are the fault of btl LL's. FTB's only have to have 5-10 percent deposit, btl LL need at least 25 percent deposit on each house and pay higher interest rates. BTL LL's also have to pass higher bank stress tests. They are not stopping FTB's from buying a house.

Toomanywaterwipes There is not a 9-5, x5 days a week earning your money. But if you think it’s greedy to be a landlord that’s your perogative

You are looking at this purely from my end and not the perspective of my tenants

OK - even those who buy from ticket tours would say they have been provided a service: the opportunity to see the show!

The people who provide the opportunity to see a show are the artists, venue management, lighting / sound technicians, bouncers, the box office and so on.

Ticket scalpers provide nothing. They buy up more tickets than they need, create a greater scarcity than would otherwise be the case to drive up prices, and once the show is sold out they sell the tickets back to the fans at inflated prices.

There's a reason why ticket scalping is illegal in some countries and many ticket companies go to great lengths to thwart them.

Landlords are to Taylor Wimpey as ticket scalpers are to Ed Sheeran.

We are clearly not going to see eye to eye on this one. I would just close by making the point, as others have, that we don’t live in an ideal world and people need somewhere to live. Private landlords therefore are part of the (not ideal) system and many don’t deserve to be called evil (slum landlords however deserve calling out)

No, they are scum. If I have a spare ticket I'll glady give it to someone that is attempting to buy from a tout rather than line their pockets.
Touts are parasites.
I don't think all landlords are parasites, but I've encountered enough that are that unfortunately I have an overall low opinion.
I have had one, genuinely great landlord, one of the worst was actually a relative 😔 horrible, grasping lazy...

Unfortunately slumlords are just so widespread. I rented 7 properties in the private sector 2012-2022 as a student and young professional, and to summarise

Home 1 - slumlord, the electricity main switch had rusted through (the man from the electricity board was ashen faced when he told us he couldn't touch it and to get an electrician in immediately), the cellar flooded with raw sewage, and the kitchen floor partially collapsed etc etc etc.

Home 2 - alright for a student property

Home 3 - very tatty and the landlords did naff all but not a full on slum

Home 4 - live in landlords who decided to evict me when I told them I'd just had much needed surgery scheduled and would be off work sick for a fortnight - they didn't want someone in the house all day! One month's notice issued, timed to expire when I was going to be in hospital.

Home 5 - actually really good landlord, I was sad to have to leave when my relationship broke down and I couldn't afford the rent alone (London 1 bed flat)

House 6 - landlord refused to protect the deposit ("oh it's just your last month's rent paid upfront"). He used to disappear for weeks at a time, completely uncontactable even in the event of an emergency. When a new job opportunity came up across the country and I needed to find a replacement for my room, he said that was fine, didn't issue any list of requirements, and then disappeared for several weeks. When he finally showed up again he said he didn't like the replacement tenant I'd found and had been trying to get in touch with him about for weeks, refused to issue a reference to my new landlord, and became very unpleasant about it all. He nearly scuppered an entire career move.

Home 7 - landlords painted over the damp before marketing it, I moved in in the autumn and before I knew it mould was springing forth from the walls and the landlord declined to do anything about it. Some of my belongings were ruined. I went into the cellar and discovered it was so damp down there that a very structural rolled steel joist was rusting. Not condensation in case you're wondering - it was both rising and penetrating damp. Somewhere along the way I'd inherited a dog (landlord permitted, the one good thing I can say about this landlord) so moving on became very difficult. Tried to take my parking space off me mid tenancy without compensation and evicted when I objected.

That's a potted history of my experience with private landlords - and these were the best options I found each time I househunted, in all cases as a fairly desirable tenant. I'm sure all of them were telling friends, family and MN that they were good landlords. Throughout that I was a student or young professional, often cited as the sort of person on this thread who 'should' be renting. I became very clued up on things like the Housing Act and often helped friends with their own slumlords. I was always fairly handy in terms of DIY thanks to my parents and knew how to spot damp, but even I had the wool pulled over my eyes.

In my experience slumlords are so very adept at covering up what they are until after you've signed on the dotted line. They outnumber the actually good landlords, and then there's the merely mediocre landlords in the middle.

If all landlords were like the one I had in Home 5, far fewer tenants would be calling for reform.

Don't direct your anger at policy makers, or tenants who want reform. Direct your anger at the slumlords who make reform necessary in the first place.

There are unscrupulous landlords for sure. But I think the majority of landlords with a small portfolio are decent.
I've just had a conversation with a long standing tenant. My mortgage has more than doubled and I haven't raised his rent in nine years. I told him I had to raise it, not the amount of the increase of the mortgage, but some. He was fine with that, as he had already looked around and there were very few properties available at all. So without me he'd be in real difficulty - the waiting list for social housing (he is disabled) is 15 years in his area! Ideally I'd like to sell it as I have two children who will soon be looking to move out on of my home, but I will give him about a years notice when I do.
Another tenant is still not paying the pre-pandemic rent. She lost her job and she pays what she can, and so far I've allowed it, though my expenses - service charge - goes up every year. But I am a widow, and we live on the rental income, so if my situation changes, and she continues not pay her full rent (which should have gone up in the four years she's been there), I may have to reconsider.
And yes I AM providing an essential product, if not 'service'. Just as supermarkets provide food (they don't grow it or farm it). Many people do not want to own. Or can't afford to on any level (my disabled tenant would never qualify for a mortgage). Students (some of my best tenants), people on temporary secondment, people testing out a new area, people who just like the flexibility of being able to move at a months notice. So many threads in here are 'there's nowhere to rent', but many more 'landlords are all greedy bastards'. Some are, but the vast majority are most certainly not.

@mondaytosunday 👏🏻👏🏻

@LastOfTheChristmasWine you've had a bad run and I agree that some landlords are shocking (I actually give housing advice and the stories we hear are unbelievable). I think landlords should be registered and regulated and subject to minimum requirements in terms of the property itself and the legal obligations they must adhere to (not protecting the deposit 😳- you could have sued for 3x that amount!)

Institutional investors are getting into the letting market which is going to keep supply hugh for rentals. Rents high for tenants and reduce supply/ increase prices for those who want to own.

Private landlords may well want to get out but I can't see these big property management companies being nice to deal with either.

We are already seeing rip off developments being built for Institutional investors. There are the retirement properties which just fleece old people of money and leave children with an asset with severe restrictions on after their parent dies. There are expensive student accommodation with crappy conditions being sold as a lifestyle because they have shared lounges and kitchens. They are even rolling out student style accommodation for young professionals which include studio accommodation with shared facilities. Grim.

I don't feel sorry for private landlords. In fact would consider a holiday let or btl myself. I want to invest in a property fund but a lot are clients so I can't.

Maybe this poster thinks that any office-based job is 'doing nothing.'

@VanCleefArpels - we have landlord registration & a repairing standard (ie property in a decent state) in Scotland.

We also have an accommodation crisis.

There's a lot of "pie in the sky" thinking & nonsense arguments on this thread.

The government isn't going to build more social housing, and even if they did, many renters would not qualify for it.

That's the gap which private LL fill. They are running a business & have to pass costs on to make a profit, otherwise they sell up.

There are those who choose to rent for a variety of reasons & those that cannot afford to buy.

There doesn't seem to be a solution here.

Maybe VanCleef is also against diamond engagement rings. Since the price of diamonds is the result of man-made scarcity of the stones to restrict supply and increase prices.