If your child's school is OFSTED rated "outstanding"...

[Dacadactyl]

can you see why OFSTED have rated it so? Are you and your children happy with the school?

I've just seen some stuff on here that's made me wonder about it (high staff turnover in some schools, poor behaviour etc) because it is not my experience of the schools my children attend.

Is my experience of having kids in these schools typical, or do some of you dislike your child's "outstanding school"? And why?

Also, if you are a teacher at an "outstanding " school, are you happy teaching there?

I am not, by the way, denying a variation in genuine quality of education and an individual child’s experience between schools. I am just questioning

a) the strength of correlation between this and Ofsted grade, and whether there are other factors - of covert or overt selective intake; socio-economic area, specific staff - that in fact are more strongly correlated.

b) whether the quality of education / experience is the same for all, or whether it is very different for eg children with SEN, or very able children, or from specific ethnic grouos.

Yes- primary school, the teaching and the aids etc are all fantastic and I can see with my friends children in different schools

Ofsted ratings are meaningless. Our primary is outstanding but hasn't been visited in my children's lifetime. Eldest is y6.

Our local outstanding primary has last been inspected in 2010....it's terrible, only has a part time head, lots of teachers left. It's absolutely not outstanding and we're looking to move schools. It's definitely more about the feel of the school and maybe results but not ratings

There is no Church attendance criteria, the children just have to be baptised.

Have a quick think about the barriers that might exist to baptism (and proof of it) Think about migrants; refugees; those in insecure housing who move a lot; chaotic families; families where substances abuse is an issue; families where the adult works on Sundays or is disabled; Gypsy/Roma/Traveller families; very high needs children.

There is no ‘just’ about baptism for a child under the age of 4. It is a genuine barrier that the school uses to skew its intake.

@cantkeepawayforever I don't mean for this to turn into a debate about Faith schools. There is an ethnically diverse population locally and my DD is at school with children who hold many different nationalities. If your religion is important to you (and why would you want a Church school if it wasnt?) there is no barrier to Baptism.

The school I mentioned earlier that retained its outstanding status is non-denominational.

I removed my child from an “outstanding” primary school and moved them to a “good” school.

The Outstanding grade was awarded a number of years ago under a prior head. That head used the grading to move onto a bigger job - fair enough. The new head was simply not of the same calibre and over 5 years the school has slid down and down. People used to fight to get their kids in, now many kids have been withdrawn as there is so much that has gone wrong. Teaching, behaviour, communication, bullying, staff calibre, leadership, you name it. At best today they would get required improvement. But of course as a parent of a 3 year old who knows nobody with a child there all you see is the Ofsted outstanding grade, the Sats at are ok (highly educated middle class parent base) and the school is able to paper over the cracks during school tours.

Having been at the “good” school for a while now I cannot tell you how much better it is in so many ways. I would expect if inspected today it would get outstanding.

The point that I am making is that the nature of your school - a school selective by faith and selective for those in a position to baptise their child before the age of 4 and produce proof of it - is at least as important in its character and its quality for your children as its Ofsted grading.

The historical Ofsted grading is made much more likely by its selective intake, but the underlying cause for the school’s qualities is, I an suggesting, the intake and the reason for it, not the grade.

Correlation vs causation.

So I think a possible alternative title for your thread- and actually a really interesting question - is ‘If your school is actively selective for a faith, do you think it is an excellent school, and why?’

After working in a school and seeing how fake the staff and kids have to be on inspection day, I don't trust the ratings. Kids threatened with detention and missing school trips if they act out on the day, etc. Although the inspection isn't just on the day-to-day running of the school and pupil's behaviour, it was a stark contrast to usual life there. DDs are in or going to private schools now

(There are of course, particularly in rural areas, ‘historically CofE’ schools that are in no way selective by faith, function as the only village school, and retain their name because of the long ago ownership of the building before universal state education. Those aren’t the schools I’m talking about - it is schools where evidence of faith is actively used as a selection criterion)

Ha, yes.

I worked in a school office once and witnessed ofsted coming in. It was a huge performance.

DD's secondary school is rated Outstanding.....but it was last inspected in 2011.

DS joined the school in 2015 and left last summer.

So far 5 full cohorts have been through the school without it being inspected again. It has some good points and some not so good points. Am wondering whether it will get inspected again before DD leaves in 2024.

I visit dozens of schools a year, so hundreds in all the time I’ve been doing my job. I’ve only visited one secondary school which I thought matched it’s grading of outstanding and no primaries. I’ve visited lots of primaries graded good which I thought were outstanding. But I’m looking at it from an SEND pov.

Secondary. I think it's deserved, they seem very on the ball in every area. Academically excellent, good teachers, lots of enrichment opportunities and challenges, not sure about sport as not really DD's interest! Pastoral care when asked for is good. Not a perfect place but they ask parents for feedback and seem to be addressing the problem areas. Communication is good.
Primary was Outstanding. It was Good and I thought that was a fair reflection. DD enjoyed the school overall but academically plodded - I was happy with how she did and the gaps have been more than filled luckily at High school. Not great for SEN either - many children with needs in a very small school.

I agree to some extent because our local Faith school was judged Inadequate across the board when DD was looking round (it has since improved). So we deliberately applied for the further away one in the hope she would get in there and she did. There will have been other parents like us, doing the same.

As an aside, if she hadn't got in where she did, she would have gone to the Inadequate one because the school having a religious character is important to us. We wouldn't have sent her to a Good (or even Outstanding) nondenominational school.

to add to what I said earlier, the two school I have been in that "failed" ofsted were both far better schools than the one graded outstanding.

Some real life examples - a 16 year old applying for the armed forces - one of the requirements for his application was that he was in full time education when he applied , so he wanted to start in our sixth form. This meant he could apply to the armed forces, and he could continue with us if his application failed. An outstanding school would have turned him down, afraid he would impact on their retention statistics. The failing school took him. Same for other students that could mess up attendance and retention data, refugees, a child with cancer, etc

Offering every child a fair chance actively counts against you in ofsted gradings.

Another example - a primary school, with an ofsted inspector, comes to use secondary school sports facilities - the teachers with the primary school children are known to the receptionist, and she normally waves them through. On this occasion, she asks to check the id of the ofsted inspector. Fair enough. Next day, same teachers come with different children, and same ofsted inspector. Receptionist recognises inspector from day before, waves whole group through.

Next thing, SECONDARY SCHOOL informed they have "failed" ofsted, because the receptionist didnt check the id of the inspector she recognised from the day before. Emergency inspection trigger for secondary school, which never actually happened, so they remained classed as 4

totally meaningless, and caused recruitment problems, with massive knock on effects to the staff

Dd and Ds went to an OFSTED outstanding school

It was the worse school I could have chosen. The general attitude of the staff, teachers and HTs was just plain nasty
If you had a child with an SEN then it was made so horrible you were forced to leave.

The outstanding school went from Outstanding to in Special Measures a couple of months after we had left.
HT and most of the teaching staff left

Ds then ended up in a school that was in Special Measures but had a new HT and teaching staff
People used to look at me in disbelief when I said which school Ds went to because it had a certain reputation
DS loved the school. He was so happy there
The next ofsted visit a year after Ds left that school said it was categorised as Outstanding and was over subscribed.

If you want horror stories I can furnish you with horror stories of an outstanding faith school where the parents with dc who could read and write thought the world of the school and would turn a blind eye to children being beaten up in the playground in front of them and a HT would never believe that church going children would do anything wrong.

My Ds was bullied because he couldn’t read or write. (Dyslexia, dysgraphia. Found out at college. School never put anyone forward for testing for dyslexia as HT didn’t believe in it)..
The HTs remak in Ds being bullied because he couldn’t read or write was to say “Well he can’t read or write. Aren’t they just stating a fact”

Ds was being beaten up by 2 boys in the playground at home time.

Friend had to drag them off him as she thought he was in danger. I was a couple of minutes late parking the car.

She and I went to see the HT and was told that friend must be mistaken. Those boys are good boys. They go to church every Sunday.

It was only later that someone pointed out what a racist remark that was. I am not Christian

My DDs went to an outstanding school while DS was at a required improvement school. There was a big difference and both deserved the rating they had.

The staff at the outstanding school genuinely seemed proud to work there, many were long term with little staff turnover. Many staff also had children at the school. It was inspected again a couple of months ago and had a glowing report. Of course it’s not perfect for everyone but it is a lovely school.

We're waiting for secondary allocations and I'm praying my daughter doesn't get the local "outstanding" one because it's got a raging drug problem, massive issues with bullying and basically if you're not a high flier you get to drift, and if you're a high flier - you get a bonus anxiety problem to go with your A*s (or whatever GCSE grades are this month).

The infants they went to just missed outstanding (I was a governor and in the debrief meeting) and it definitely bloody should have been as it was so nurturing, meticulous in how it made sure kids progressed - but one particular cohort of lower achieving boys had really just not responded to anything directed at them and it pulled it down. Currently they're at a good primary school (the juniors linked to the infants was awful) and it's the best place for them in terms of pastoral support that both have needed - although now DD1 is year 6 there's a bit of big fish in small pond itis creeping in as expected.

I worked in an outstanding school that got downgraded into requires improvement - they were fucking ruthless in targeting interventions and leaving kids they felt had no chance to drift. It was a bit of a bootcamp in how shite ofsted ratings were.

Assuming this refers to the proportion of children with identified SEN, this can also be higher in areas where parents have the resources to access a diagnosis.

Given that waiting lists for NHS assessment are two years plus in many areas and that there is a recognised increase in parents seeking private diagnosis in private schools, it is reasonable to consider if deprived areas have a higher percentage of undiagnosed SEN.

@LavenderHillMob the school is not in an affluent area and has a diverse catchment area.

Then it is highly likely that the actual proportion of children with SEN will be even higher than those with a current, known diagnosis.

DD is in y6 at an Outstanding primary school, and I agree that it is. She was under SENCO in KS1 and the support could not have been better.

@LavenderHillMob it was my understanding that there is no need for a diagnosis of a specific condition in order to get an EHCP or be given school SEN Support?