Dyspraxic child going on Scouts overnighter

[VenusClapTrap]

Ds is ten and has just moved up to Scouts. They are doing a hiking weekend which involves a hike, followed by overnight in the Scout hut, followed by another long hike.

Ds is dyspraxic and chaotic with his stuff, and terrible at tying shoelaces. This is not from want of training - it has been a monumental effort and he can now tie laces, but not very well. He can’t do it tightly enough and they come undone all the time. He then gets bored of constantly re-tying them and runs around with them undone.

This is fine if I’m around to remind him, but on a long hike it’s important his hiking boots have properly tightly tied laces, or he’s in danger of twisting his ankle.

Second problem is his stuff - rolling up and tying up his mat and his sleeping bag, not to mention keeping track of his clothes which will be scattered to the four winds and never found again. Goodbye woggle, goodbye socks.

Any tips that anyone with a dyspraxic child can offer? Or just a generally chaotic child?

I was going to have a quiet word with the leaders staying overnight, to see if they can keep an eye, but it turns out that none of their pack leaders will be there. The adults staying overnight are from different packs (it is a big thing with multiple local groups doing the activity), so he won’t know any of them. There’s absolutely zero chance of him asking a stranger to help him with his shoelaces, even if I tell him to.

I probably just need to let him sink or swim, but if anyone has any tips or tricks to help organise him I’d be very grateful.

Speak to the leaders you do know and ask for a named leader who is staying to be told and for them to check in with your son and help him.

I'm a leader and we absolutely do this kind of thing all the time but we can't if we don't know. The leaders who do know him won't be aware of how much of an issue it is unless you raise it.

'Named leader who can check in with him to help with x y z' is what you need to email and then verbally ask for.

My dyspraxic DS went right through from Beavers to Explorers and I remember worrying about his camps, in fact one of the first ones he also had to go with an arm in plaster. Somehow he did muddle through, the others in his tent lent a hand, but its definitely worth asking the regular leaders to make those leading the camp aware. One tip is to make sure he has a bigger bag than he needs and some spare carrier bags so if he can't get everything into a tightly packed bag he can just chuck it in carriers on packing up day. Bin bag for sleeping bag so he doesn't have to squeeze it into its own sack. Name everything - we used a stamp. Also, you can get replacement laces with toggles so you don't have to tie them, he still uses these on his walking boots as an adult. It will all stand him in good stead for later in life.

Talk to the leaders. Be very honest about the child's strengths and weaknesses. Leaders will be happy to help with things like tying shoe laces. That takes a lot less time than the disruption, first aid and paperwork a twisted ankle would cause!

Hope he has fun on the hikes!

oh i've been there!! definitely tell the scout leaders ....the ones at my sons really helped him by either working with him..or giving a different role eg you collect dishes/tidy/litter pick whilst we pack down
.etc
elastic laces for walking shoes toggle/triathlon type more effective ...one eaised eyebrow until they did a trip when had normal laces and they had to stop a million times... alternative found army cadet boots which have a zip!
oversize bag for sleeping bag and practice just stuffing it in
sleeping mat was trickiest to get a decent one ended up with lilo type (alpkit) or thin sim then just put an elastic band/hair band round....if you dont know if likely to go often..
ds loved it and even though still struggles can now put his own tent up and down (has taken 10 yrs of lots of scouts/dofe/camping )

My DS2 is similar but probably 'worse' than your DS. He is autistic, has ADHD & probably dyspraxia.

He has come right up from Beavers through to Scouts & has always joined in everything the others have done. He is, in fact, also going on an overnight hike, in March (I wonder if it's the same one, we are in Essex?) His leaders are fully aware of all his difficulties & make reasonable adjustments for him. They are not going on this particular hike, although one of the Young Leaders is. They have contacted the organisers and made them aware of DS2's needs & weaknesses, which are all being taken into account.

In practical terms, elastic laces sound good for hiking boots. Also, naming absolutely everything. Another tip is to have spares of everything, so if they do get lost, it's not such a big deal. Scour secondhand sites for cheap replacements.

I think it's fantastic that your DS - and mine - have the opportunity to do these things, and at such low cost! They are great at helping them learn non-academic skills & building confidence.

Best of luck to you both!

just raise it with the leaders, and ask them to keep an eye on him - that is what they are there for.

As a dyspraxic camper, I just need time and space to organise myself - I have a routine - I cant have anyone around me when I am putting the tent up, for example. I cant do it with anyone, not unless they turn total automaton, and follow every instruction precisely and do nothing off their own initiative and I can keep a full picture in my head of exactly what is happening.

For example if I say - "hold this guy rope in position" and they do, then I know where the guy rope is. If they take it upon themselves to hammer it in with a tent peg, than I completely lose my mental image of what is happening, and cant go any further

In practice this always mean either I put the tent up alone, while my fellow campers go and find a cup of tea, or they put the tent up without me, and I have a snooze!

Sp for your son, a check list, ( maybe written on a card) and time and space to follow it? Dont make it too long, just what is really important

Dd is an adult but when she was inBrownies/ guides and away to camp we did an easy list she ticked off of the things to remember.

she had walking shoes with a velcro strap she moved onto proper boots you can get boots with bungee fastenings now so they just put them on and tighten them, would this be an option for him? Also talk to the leaders they will help him.

Thank you SO much everyone, there are some great tips on here, I’m so glad I asked. I’m going to Google elastic toggle laces right now and will make up a check list card with ds when he gets home from school.

I will also email the pack leader and explain formally and asked for a named person. I already spoke to the area chief scout type person and she was very ‘Oh he’ll be fine, just do lots of practise’ type thing. But she’s a friend so I think takes me less seriously than she would a stranger, ironically!

Not Essex, no!

Also going to make a trip to Mountain Watehouse to buy a bigger backpack. He has to carry all his sleeping stuff for the hikes, so a bin bag is not an option. If he can cram it all in without properly rolling/stuffing that will probably help.

And thank you for the reassurance. I feel like I’m being a bit of a mollycoddler with him sometimes, but he’s just so utterly useless at this sort of thing!

oh yes naming everything... overnight should be fine but i got gently moaned at once for ds not having enough clothes on a long trip.by a different scout leader... in fact had bag full but forgot! ...usually ds just wears/sleeps/wears same clothes most of the trip so dont pack too much... don't worry about it as he has a bath as soon as gets home anyway..

I can only echo the elastic laces being the only way. For DS's walking boots he has the toggle ones (I've actually used 2 pairs per boot with the toggles in the middle so he can loosen off the top and bottom separately - not that he does, he just jams his foot in), or on another pair of trainers, I did elastic laces and then just superglued the bow so it stays put.

DS can't take the time to do up bags, so every back he uses is some variety of tote - even the rucksacks, I make sure that when he doesn't clip them shut, they have the internal drawstring to stop them shedding all his clothes... which TBH, I just accept will have a certain attrition rate from being lost.

The only way mine remembers things is with routine - a checklist (verbalised, and written by the door) for going to school, or for going to bed etc. Can you do the same for the camping stuff, go through it a few times, drill him on it like a spelling test?

And thank you for the reassurance. I feel like I’m being a bit of a mollycoddler with him sometimes, but he’s just so utterly useless at this sort of thing!

No, I understand what you're saying, but you're not - other people don't get it, that it's not a "he'll soon learn" situation, it's a "he'll never learn, but he can be trained" situation. TBH, you're doing better than me, mine doesn't have a hope of doing up his shoelaces, in fact, when people do the "he'll get there speech", I suggest they try and teach him - one look at the total incomprehension on his face at how to do it, even as you're demonstrating to him what to do is a good illustration for them.

Much better to work with accommodations for it and keep their confidence up than continuously have them trying to do things that are just unbelievably hard for them.

Elastic laces. Life saver for my similar sounding kid.

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Ah, I thought you might be hiking to and from the scout hut so not carrying everything. A bigger rucksack is definitely better than a very tightly packed one in that case.

Talk to the leaders. They can get one of the older 13/14 year old ‘just about to go up to Explorers’ Scouts to keep an eye out for him.

I remember one of the mums of a newly moved up Scout buying me and my friend boxes of chocolates as said young scout had been on our team for a competition hike and we’d looked after him.

In Guides, if your child has any additional needs parents usually fill out some forms to help the Leaders plan activities appropriately.
Remember though, that the leaders are all volunteers, giving up their time for this - it's not like being in school and asking for a named person to be responsible for your son isn't reasonable. Each adult will be responsible already for a number of children. If you think your son needs more individual support you need to talk that through with the Leaders in case more adults are going to be needed. But you can't demand this, it will depend on their actually being more suitably trained volunteers available. Work with the unit as they will want to include your son and get him the best experience of the trip.

Honestly there are lots of kids who can't do things at his age - considering he has sen needs ask the leader if you can phone the leader who is going. My son doesn't even have sen needs and I remember at the age of 14 we had to train him to open a can of beans for his dof hike as his finger strength was too weak. We ended up going with the plastic pots.

My son’s Scout Leaders gladly put his sleeping bag into the stuff sack for him, he has ADD and autism, but also had low muscle tone and lacked the strength in his hands. If everything is labelled then it will get back to them at some point.

I found that they were more than happy to help.

Thank you all, very helpful.

I think the toggle laces are going to be an absolute game changer. It’s become increasingly difficult to find Velcro school shoes and trainers now that his feet are the same size as mine. He will be thrilled to have some actual choice of footwear!

Do make sure you speak to his leaders, use the phrase 'reasonable adjustments ' as it helps remind them it's a SEN thing not a fretting mum thing. Good leaders will be keen to make sure your son is safe and enjoys himself, and will be happy to liaise with the other leaders- there will lots of children who need handover notes (allergies, dietary requirements, medical conditions etc) so please don't worry about it.

Then, label everything. Put a whole day's outfit in a zippy bag/plastic bag and label it Saturday. Put a whole day's outfit in a bag and label it Sunday.(plus a spare set) Or however it will work out. This helps remind them to put on clean undies and stops the next day's clothes getting lost/dirty etc. We suggest this to all cubs/scouts/explorers (generational family of scout leaders here) and we do it as a family when camping as it helps with packing and keeping things clean and dry. I hope your son has a fabulous time.

I have those elastic laces for my walking boots and they're amazing. I can tie laces perfectly well but they keep coming on done after getting caught on brambles etc - these elastic toggle ones stay tight the whole time.

When I was involved we often asked a suitable older child to be their buddy, helping double know laces and checking they pack up their kit. It's less intrusive than an adult helping and its good for the older ones to take responsibility

Slightly off-topic, but for school shoes, is he allowed loafers? They have saved the day for my DS. Most shops do versions of them, ours were from Next & about £20, still going strong from September 😊

He is allowed loafers, but trashes them after about a week unfortunately. Very heavy on shoes, that boy.

Mine uses the long laces with toggles posted upthread for walking boots and these sort for lace up shoes

Oh a pp mentioned it and reminded me , we used to sort clothes into days In bags into the rucksack that really helped.
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