Job or Engineering Phd?

[rosesarentalwaysred125]

name changed as identifiable.
dd is on final year of M Eng at Imperial College and on course for a first. She has a job lined up for after she graduates, a graduate engineering role in London.
This week, one of her professors has
messaged her directly, asking her to
apply for a funded Phd. He called it a scholarship, but I thought all Phds were funded? Anyway, it's a Phd in an area of civil engineering she's interested in. Phd funded
plus £20k paid to her per annum.
She's now unsure what to do and asked me to post here! She's not interested in working in academia. Would the Phd open up better job opportunities in future? She's
worried to let the people who offered her a job down too. Any thoughts?

I'm in engineering and when we are recruiting for my team, we generally don't look at phd holders as being any better than fresh graduates. For us, it's job experience that matters.

Appreciate that may not be the case in every job everywhere though! Engineering is a large and diverse sector.

On the flip side, if she thinks she'll enjoy the phd anyway, and is happy to still potentially have to start at a graduate wage when she does go into industry, then nothing lost maybe?

She wanted a job so she got a job!
She is only thinking about the PhD because somebody suggested it, her heart is not in it. People are still rumbling about downturns and recessions so get in there and get work experience under her belt and start the 'job security only kicks in after two years' ball rolling.

thanks. From my understanding (limited) it seems that, unless you're interested in a role in academia, Engineering Phds aren't really necessary. But I guess some engineers do them and don't go on to teach? I guess timing is important too as she's at home, can commute to Imperial and maybe later chances to do a Phd will be harder to come by.
She's conflicted!

yea, that's a very good point @senua

I was going to say PhD, it really does depend on the sector, some might prefer an MBA.

I'm a civil engineer and I have a PhD. It was fun and interesting to do, but it hadn't advanced my career in anyway. It hadn't held me back per we, other than I was progressing my industrial experience for 3 years.

If it’s an area she’s interested in this would be a perfect opportunity. I did something very similar and it gave me lots of great experience and contacts. Although PhD’s are not necessary, nearly 50% of people in the senior technical leadership team have a doctorate. Hopefully misogyny is on its way out, but speaking from experience as a woman in a heavily dominated male industry, having this further qualification really helps reinforce I’m not a silly blonde bimbo (although there are some that might still think that!!).

My partner opted to go into the workforce over a mechanical engineering Ph.D. 20+ years ago. He was dissuaded by his mother to pursue further studies. He regrets it and wishes he has done it. He's changed industries a few times since then and thinks a PhD would have made the transitions easier. He says a lot of the top people in his sector (finance) increasingly have doctorates. Is this the case at the senior levels of the sector your daughter is interested in?

yes, it's true that all the senior people in the industry (and the company she got the role with) have Phds. And I hadn't thought of the "woman in a traditionally male industry" perspective either. Very true!

I don't know what she should do, but since you ask - no, not all PhDs are funded. Winning a scholarship is a bit of a feather in your cap. I'm not quite clear from your post what the deal is - is the funding itself 20kp/a, or is it that she gets her fees paid plus 20k on top of that? How does it compare financially to her job? (PhD funding isn't taxed). If it were me, I'd be using that to help decide, especially if she thinks she might be wanting to settle down in the next three/four years.

it's at least all the funding plus an annual amount of 20k for her. (which will go a long way as she still lives with us!) She's aware that once she leaves home, the need to earn a good salary will mean that doing a Phd possibly never happens.

I used to work in a railway engineering office. For engineering the MEng/MICE (professional registration) are the things that will make her employable, otherwise employers will be looking to her portfolio and experience in industry, e.g. what projects has she worked on since graduating.
If it were me, I'd take the job, especially right now as in a big recession a lot of engineering projects tend to grind to a halt and it can be harder to get a foot in the door. The professor probably thought they were helping her out and assuming she had no job lined up.
Which branch of engineering is she in? As electrical/computer engineering is a bit different to civils/aerospace is different to petrochemical/chemical etc in terms of requirements/prospects. My advice assumes she's in civil.

she's in civil engineering

Ah, got you. The PhD does sound like a tempting option.

Is she going to apply to be a Chartered Engineer. I believe that that is quite a lengthy process; will the PhD put her back or does it count towards?
How long is the PhD expected to take, btw?

PhD will help with CEng. CEng is a professional qualification so graduation plus three to ten years, mostly depends on motivation TBH.

If someone is offering you a fully funded PhD with a decent stipend and you've smashed a MEng with a projected first, grab it with both hands while you've no dependents and juggling a job.

My dad is a well regarded civil engineer and no, you don't need a PhD but it will come into its own when she's older and not wanting to be on site as much, civil engineering consultancy is lucrative, and the more qualifications combined with experience you have (and she's young, she's got years to build experience on site), plus the fact that she's female will mean she's pretty much sorted forever.

There is absolutely no job shortage of well qualified civil engineers, and even if there is some random glitch in the matrix and she's between contracts, she'd have banked a PhD that means she can Associate Lecture at HE institutions.

What is the PhD topic? If it's anything to do with carbon reduction, then take it. Decarbonisation is going to dominate the industry for the next few years - if she can become an expert in the field early on, I think that probably will be extremely beneficial to her.

.... wondering who @daisyjgrey's dad is....

She has her whole life to work. The PhD sounds like an incredible opportunity (speaking as an academic). Is there any industry component to it? Long-term, it could boost her contacts especially since her prof is backing her. Saying that, doing a PhD is hard slog and you have to rant to want it. I’ve seen PhD students drop out as they weren’t motivated. Best of luck to your DD - she sounds amazing.

😂😂

I’m a civil engineer and from my experience I’d say it’s about getting into workforce and getting hands on experience. Unless she wants to go into academia in which case the PhD may be a good shout. But for employability nothing beats experience and there’s only one way to get that! There’s tons of opportunity for professional development as she moves through her career and sees which way she wants to take it.

I've a PhD in computer science field, and work for a well known tech company. (Almost) All of our development roles specify MSc/PhD in the qualifications. There are certain areas rapidly evolving areas (computer vision, machine learning) in which an MSc just won't have the background or expertise from an MSc level course, even if they've undertaken a related thesis project in that course.

Back when I did my PhD, it was almost always done with an interest to work later in academia. In the area I work, that has change dramatically over the last 20 years, and today many (most ?) will want to work in industry. The research is often closely aligned with supporting industry partners, and often includes time working on/with an industry context, like most of the H2020 funded projects.

I'm not sure if this experience translates to the civil engineering world though?